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    This is your proposition: Reality exists all the...

    You can not prove it exists independently of minds.[/QUOTE]

    This is your proposition:
    Reality exists all the time because Biblegod is looking at all aspects of reality all the time.

    These are...
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    Based on the fact that you haven't attempted to...

    But you guys go a step further and say, "the material world can exist independently of minds," which is something that can not be observed unless we all left our minds outside of our bodies.[/QUOTE]...
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    You ignored what I was saying, perhaps because...

    But you guys go a step further and say, "the material world can exist independently of minds," which is something that can not be observed unless we all left our minds outside of our bodies.[/QUOTE]...
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    Wrong. The fact is that we cannot demonstrate...

    But, materialism can't explain anything without minds.[/QUOTE]

    Wrong. The fact is that we cannot demonstrate that the material world exists and is real. In order to assert that the material world...
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    "Minds" should be changed to "observations"....

    No, it's the sign of a huge ego that thinks they can describe how things were in the past when there were no minds around.

    Without minds, you can't describe how anything looks, feels, smells,...
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    Alternately, no external world exists, and god is...

    1. We all use our minds to gather information about the world: empiricism.
    2. Empiricism can not show that an external world exists independently of minds because no one has ever been outside of...
  7. Jarhyn did not claim that human fetuses are the...

    Jarhyn did not claim that human fetuses are the moral equivalent of ticks; that is your extrapolation. He merely provided examples of things that are also alive (responding to statements you had made...
  8. Lion will not address this because he refuses to...

    Lion will not address this because he refuses to acknowledge that the argument even exists. He doesn't have an easy, canned response, and he cannot easily construct a caricature of this argument in...
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    Someone who claims that one must eat the flesh...

    Yes.

    The myth that a universe can spontaneously pop into (or out of) existence without a cause.

    Or that an uncaused universe can exist eternally and we have been here forever, doing stuff over...
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    I don't have any evidence to support the claim....

    I take the Flood account literally.

    Can you "literally" show me where in the "literal" text it says there was an insurmountable problem with animal dung?

    Show me where exactly in the text it...
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    Lets not forget the plants. Plants do good things...

    Lets not forget the plants. Plants do good things for us, like absorbing carbon dioxide and producing oxygen, and producing food. Why did God have to kill the plants?
  12. Galileo was indicted by the Church on charges of...

    So why then is the number of people who were burned at the stake for anything to do with science ... zero?


    Sorry, but actual historians of science disagree with you. Galileo and others before...
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    I just conceived of a being that is greater than...

    God is the greatest being which can be conceived.[/QUOTE]

    I just conceived of a being that is greater than Biblegod. That would be my dad. He never cursed his children to disease and death. He...
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    You've got this backward. It is true that we...

    Because if things existing independently of minds can't be proven, then it's only logical that there is an eternal mind which solves this problem.[/QUOTE]

    You've got this backward. It is true that...
  15. Indeed. If you were a naturalist who happened to...

    So as long as the findings of people like Galileo did not interfere with or contradict the Church's current dogmas, it was acceptable. When it did, well, you ended up tied to a stake on a wooden...
  16. So as long as the findings of people like Galileo...

    So as long as the findings of people like Galileo did not interfere with or contradict the Church's current dogmas, it was acceptable. When it did, well, you ended up tied to a stake on a wooden...
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    Good to know. Thank you for clearing that up.

    Nope.[/QUOTE]

    Good to know. Thank you for clearing that up.
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    And? ..... Because we don't currently...

    There's that "had to be" along with the "laws" and "must" and "fixed" already in play. Even if there are, for unexplained and inexplicable reasons, laws that matter and energy must follow, how can we...
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    I agree with you. Now all you/theists have to do...

    If that is the case then my original point was quite valid. If laws are derived from reality, then it makes no sense to talk about a new phenomenon you haven't previously encountered as the "breaking...
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    What is X in this scenario? The existence of...

    What is X in this scenario? The existence of reality? Or the characteristics of this reality and everything we observe within it? And who said anything about not asking further questions, or that we...
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    I don't know. I accept reality as a brute fact...

    What is it that "makes" things follow physical laws? What has "fixed" these properties.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know. I accept reality as a brute fact and proceed from there. I have no reason to believe...
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    Do you have problems with reading comprehension?...

    So then you agree that Jesus did actually do the healing miracles. That's the important point. You're agreeing that he had that power, and that this was evidence for the disciples to believe in him. ...
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    As I just said, I don't respond to your posts...

    Yeah, yeah. You keep on saying that over and over and over. (Ironic whining.)
    I wouldn't keep attempting to engage in "meaningful conversation" with someone if I felt that way about them....
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    Thank you.

    Thank you.
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    Neg rep for incessant whining. And for the...

    No. I don't.
    I don't want to engage in the very type of discussions that I've just gotten thru denouncing as a waste of time. And I wouldn't want to have a discussion with the person I've just neg...
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