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    Thanks. You have my sympathy, empathy and...

    Thanks. You have my sympathy, empathy and understanding, etc.

    Yeah, attempted jokes that flop. Aargh. :worried:

    And of course, if you're worried about whether a joke might flop, you're...
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    PUBLIC SPEAKING

    One of my deep-seated fears is public speaking. I think it's not uncommon at all to have such a fear. I've hated it all my life and I've generally avoided doing it where possible. I'm now thinking of...
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    Ok. And of course, the supposed location is...

    Ok.

    And of course, the supposed location is only one issue.

    As to whether self should properly be called an illusion, or an delusion, or partly both, or something else, I don't know. It's an...
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    Ok so are there no independently distinguishable...

    Ok so are there no independently distinguishable patterns of neural correlates for different types of human cognition? Consider me very surprised. I might even go so far as to say 'balderdash'.

    ...
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    I'll offer to send you a lack-of-convincedness...

    I'll offer to send you a lack-of-convincedness sympathies card. Obviously, if I did that, you wouldn't know whether it's real or whether the experience of getting it in the post is something you're...
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    Precisely where it is felt to be located is...

    Precisely where it is felt to be located is irrelevant. It isn't there, especially not in a missing arm. If you think your self is in your missing arm, you're mistaken. If you even experience...
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    Nope, you didn't, though I agree you seem...

    No, it does not. I showed that the human moral sense does that. [/QUOTE]

    Nope, you didn't, though I agree you seem convinced you did. But all you did was you just came out with what seems to be a...
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    Yes, but as you agree, in that case you would...

    No, you got that wrong, because:

    a. Actually, in S14, the only person left in the universe is the serial killer who wants to murder other people for fun. He is mistaken about the fact that others...
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    One way to at least narrow down the focus, I'm...

    One way to at least narrow down the focus, I'm suggesting, and potentially cut through some of the crap and confusion, as it were, would be to consider the example rule or fact in the OP, "continued...
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    Can you know if a fish is or isn't pondering or...

    And as I wrote above what the fish does after changing color is controlled by the nervous system so since behavior a consequential element I can read the fish's mind.[/quote]
    Can you know if a fish...
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    Now can a chimp, or a poodle, even if is not...

    Now can a chimp, or a poodle, even if is not thinking the words ‘eat, survive, reproduce’, nonetheless be experiencing oughts about these things?

    I’d be inclined to say yes.

    But not a...
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    Ok. I won’t quibble and say that the...

    Actually you are saying that biological existence is good. We're all going to exist physically forever, changing a bit as we go along, but biologically we will definitely come and go.[/QUOTE]

    Ok....
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    Ok but do you believe there are externally...

    Ok but do you believe there are externally independent rules about that? ‘Existence = good’ is the best I can come up with so far (in fact I didn’t come up with it, it was suggested to me) and I’m...
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    Just to add to this, Wiploc...... Are you a...

    I meant, for example, 'the continued existence of the organism in question is right (or good if you prefer)' or its genes, or its kin, colony, group or tribe, possibly even species, but with the...
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    No we can't. What you describe is not that. ...

    Oh we can most certainly read them. [/QUOTE]

    No we can't. What you describe is not that.

    And I doubt a didinium even has a mind to read in any case.



    I don't understand. I am totally...
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    In other words, it's not just or only the...

    In other words, it's not just or only the perceived location of the experiences (which is an illusion in itself) or about whether the experiences are stable or not (which we agree they can be but...
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    There are clearly non-attitudinal facts about...

    There are clearly non-attitudinal facts about illness that are externally independent. This does not necessarily seem to be the case regarding the morality of the actions in your scenario, or at...
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    Here's an example I posted in another thread: ...

    Here's an example I posted in another thread:

    One organism is killing and eating another organism:

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    The didinium is eating and killing the paramecium

    By way of contrast:

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    Good point. I read 'saying water is wet' as...

    Good point. I read 'saying water is wet' as meaning 'making a statement of the obvious' (eg 'morality for living things is biological'), but as you say it's arguably not a good way to say that.


    ...
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    And as far as I know, Huck Likes huntin' rabbits...

    Gazzaniga's narrator function.[/QUOTE]

    And as far as I know, Huck Likes huntin' rabbits throughout the story.

    So Huck has a stable sense of self across time.
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    Yes. It only means that something is not what it...

    Yes. It only means that something is not what it seems to be.

    That's why I said that in the second line of the OP. :)



    I think that's a pretty good analogy.
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    26277 Huckleberry Finn, the fictional narrator...

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    Huckleberry Finn, the fictional narrator of the book, 'Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'. Maybe your self is a lot like Huckleberry Finn.
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    One other possible way would be the sort of moral...

    One other possible way would be the sort of moral realism that would say there are externally independent, objective moral facts that do not even depend on living things, but that are discovered by...
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    I meant, for example, 'the continued existence of...

    I meant, for example, 'the continued existence of the organism in question is right (or good if you prefer)' or its genes, or its kin, colony, group or tribe, possibly even species, but with the...
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    MORALITY IS BIOLOGICAL

    Claim: morality (for living things) is biological and/or biochemical.

    A weaker version of the claim could be to say that the basis of morality (for living things) is biological.

    Example:...
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