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Thread: Buddhist Scriptures: the Sun will become a red giant

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Buddhist Scriptures: the Sun will become a red giant

    It's in the Sermon of the Seven Suns, Anguttara Nikâya 7.62 in the Pali Canon. Here are some translations of it:

    Buddhist Sutra - The Sermon Of The Seven Suns
    The Sermon of the Seven Suns (Anguttara VII. 62)
    The_Numerical_Discourses_of_the_Buddha,Anguttara_N ikaya,Bodhi,2012.pdf
    (note: 1 yojana / league is 12 - 15 km / 7 - 9 mi)

    This is what it says will happen:
    • A long drought: all the land plants will die.
    • A second sun: the streams and ponds will dry up.
    • A third sun: the great rivers will dry up.
    • A fourth sun: the lakes will dry up.
    • A fifth sun: the oceans will dry up.
    • A sixth sun: the Earth becomes very volcanically active and fiery.
    • A seventh sun: the Earth melts and boils off.

    We can interpret the extra suns allegorically and suppose that those extra suns are our Sun getting brighter and brighter. Which is indeed what the Sun is doing (The Once & Future Sun, Future of Earth). As it does so, over the next few billion years, life will gradually be driven into extinction: first multicellular organisms, then one-celled eukaryotes, and finally prokaryotes, with hyperthermophiles being the last holdouts. The oceans will become hot enough to boil, and the Earth will become much like Venus.

    When the Sun becomes a red giant, some 7 billion years from now, it will expand out to the Earth's orbit, and the Earth may not survive.


    So should we convert to Buddhism because of this?

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Do we have to convert?
    Can we be Buddhist atheists?

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    Veteran Member funinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Do we have to convert?
    Can we be Buddhist atheists?
    Sure you can, but you will still have to wear an orange wrap at least some of the time
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Buddhism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Do we have to convert?
    Can we be Buddhist atheists?
    Don't see why not . There are atheist Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    It's in the Sermon of the Seven Suns, Anguttara Nikâya 7.62 in the Pali Canon. Here are some translations of it:

    Buddhist Sutra - The Sermon Of The Seven Suns
    The Sermon of the Seven Suns (Anguttara VII. 62)
    The_Numerical_Discourses_of_the_Buddha,Anguttara_N ikaya,Bodhi,2012.pdf
    (note: 1 yojana / league is 12 - 15 km / 7 - 9 mi)

    This is what it says will happen:
    • A long drought: all the land plants will die.
    • A second sun: the streams and ponds will dry up.
    • A third sun: the great rivers will dry up.
    • A fourth sun: the lakes will dry up.
    • A fifth sun: the oceans will dry up.
    • A sixth sun: the Earth becomes very volcanically active and fiery.
    • A seventh sun: the Earth melts and boils off.

    We can interpret the extra suns allegorically and suppose that those extra suns are our Sun getting brighter and brighter. Which is indeed what the Sun is doing (The Once & Future Sun, Future of Earth). As it does so, over the next few billion years, life will gradually be driven into extinction: first multicellular organisms, then one-celled eukaryotes, and finally prokaryotes, with hyperthermophiles being the last holdouts. The oceans will become hot enough to boil, and the Earth will become much like Venus.

    When the Sun becomes a red giant, some 7 billion years from now, it will expand out to the Earth's orbit, and the Earth may not survive.


    So should we convert to Buddhism because of this?
    No.
    We should interpret it as it stands: utter nonsens.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Do we have to convert?
    Can we be Buddhist atheists?
    Don't see why not . There are atheist Jews.
    Yes, but Buddhist is not usually used interchangeably as a nationality, ethnicity, religion, verb, and for lamellophone nomenclature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juma View Post
    No.
    We should interpret it as it stands: utter nonsens.
    Ya, this is about the same level as saying that Christianity is real because the Bible says that the universe was created at some point and the Big Bang is the starting point of the universe, so therefore the Bible is scientifically accurate and therefore God. If you take one aspect of the text out of context and ignore everything around it, it sort of lines up with something real, but that's not actually what scientific accuracy means.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    (The Buddhist Sermon of the Seven Suns: the Sun baking the Earth and becoming a red giant?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Juma View Post
    No.
    We should interpret it as it stands: utter nonsens.
    Ya, this is about the same level as saying that Christianity is real because the Bible says that the universe was created at some point and the Big Bang is the starting point of the universe, so therefore the Bible is scientifically accurate and therefore God. If you take one aspect of the text out of context and ignore everything around it, it sort of lines up with something real, but that's not actually what scientific accuracy means.
    That's right.

    BTW, Muslim apologists love this sort of argument. They believe that the Koran got lots of things right, like embryology and the Big Bang.

    Richard Carrier has taken on this sort of argument in Secular Web Kiosk: Predicting Modern Science: Epicurus vs. Mohammed, showing that Lucretius's On the Nature of Things (De rerum natura) does remarkably well at anticipating the findings of modern science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    It's in the Sermon of the Seven Suns, Anguttara Nikâya 7.62 in the Pali Canon. Here are some translations of it:

    Buddhist Sutra - The Sermon Of The Seven Suns
    The Sermon of the Seven Suns (Anguttara VII. 62)
    The_Numerical_Discourses_of_the_Buddha,Anguttara_N ikaya,Bodhi,2012.pdf
    (note: 1 yojana / league is 12 - 15 km / 7 - 9 mi)

    This is what it says will happen:
    • A long drought: all the land plants will die.
    • A second sun: the streams and ponds will dry up.
    • A third sun: the great rivers will dry up.
    • A fourth sun: the lakes will dry up.
    • A fifth sun: the oceans will dry up.
    • A sixth sun: the Earth becomes very volcanically active and fiery.
    • A seventh sun: the Earth melts and boils off.

    We can interpret the extra suns allegorically and suppose that those extra suns are our Sun getting brighter and brighter. Which is indeed what the Sun is doing (The Once & Future Sun, Future of Earth). As it does so, over the next few billion years, life will gradually be driven into extinction: first multicellular organisms, then one-celled eukaryotes, and finally prokaryotes, with hyperthermophiles being the last holdouts. The oceans will become hot enough to boil, and the Earth will become much like Venus.

    When the Sun becomes a red giant, some 7 billion years from now, it will expand out to the Earth's orbit, and the Earth may not survive.


    So should we convert to Buddhism because of this?
    i'm buddhist and you're being silly. no. buddhist scriptures also have some utterly weird descriptions of the world.

    Earthly realms

    Manuṣyaloka (Tib: mi; Jpn: 人 nin) – This is the world of humans and human-like beings who live on the surface of the earth. The mountain-rings that engird Sumeru are surrounded by a vast ocean, which fills most of the world. The ocean is in turn surrounded by a circular mountain wall called Cakravāḍa (Pāli: Cakkavāḷa) which marks the horizontal limit of the world. In this ocean there are four continents which are, relatively speaking, small islands in it. Because of the immenseness of the ocean, they cannot be reached from each other by ordinary sailing vessels, although in the past, when the cakravartin kings ruled, communication between the continents was possible by means of the treasure called the cakraratna (Pāli cakkaratana), which a cakravartin and his retinue could use to fly through the air between the continents. The four continents are:

    Jambudvīpa or Jambudīpa (Jpn: 閻浮提 Enbudai) is located in the south and is the dwelling of ordinary human beings. It is said to be shaped "like a cart", or rather a blunt-nosed triangle with the point facing south. (This description probably echoes the shape of the coastline of southern India.) It is 10,000 yojanas in extent (Vibhajyavāda tradition) or has a perimeter of 6,000 yojanas (Sarvāstivāda tradition) to which can be added the southern coast of only 3  1⁄2 yojanas' length. The continent takes its name from a giant Jambu tree (Syzygium cumini), 100 yojanas tall, which grows in the middle of the continent. Every continent has one of these giant trees. All Buddhas appear in Jambudvīpa. The people here are five to six feet tall and their length of life varies between 10 to power 140 years (Asankya Aayu) and 10 years.

    Pūrvavideha or Pubbavideha is located in the east, and is shaped like a semicircle with the flat side pointing westward (i.e., towards Sumeru). It is 7,000 yojanas in extent (Vibhajyavāda tradition) or has a perimeter of 6,350 yojanas of which the flat side is 2,000 yojanas long (Sarvāstivāda tradition). Its tree is the acacia. The people here are about 12 feet (3.7 m) tall and they live for 250 years.

    Aparagodānīya or Aparagoyāna is located in the west, and is shaped like a circle with a circumference of about 7,500 yojanas (Sarvāstivāda tradition). The tree of this continent is a giant Kadamba tree. The human inhabitants of this continent do not live in houses but sleep on the ground. They are about 24 feet (7.3 m) tall and they live for 500 years.
    Uttarakuru is located in the north, and is shaped like a square. It has a perimeter of 8,000 yojanas, being 2,000 yojanas on each side. This continent's tree is called a kalpavṛkṣa (Pāli: kapparukkha) or kalpa-tree, because it lasts for the entire kalpa. The inhabitants of Uttarakuru are said to be extraordinarily wealthy. They do not need to labor for a living, as their food grows by itself, and they have no private property. They have cities built in the air. They are about 48 feet (15 m) tall and live for 1,000 years, and they are under the protection of Vaiśravaṇa.
    the reason that you should convert to buddhism is that ALL of us know that that stuff is nonsense and we don't believe it anymore. we do not believe that our scriptures are the word of god(s) or in any way infallible. in fact, we are told that they will be misunderstood and come to be irrelevant over time. we, in general, flat accept the scientific method and what it says about the material world...now. we had little interest in newtonian clockwork cosmology, because it was wrong. otoh, we look at the double slit experiment and say, 'yes, of course' because it matches our non-dualist view of the nature of reality. it makes sense to us, though apparently to very few others. this also doesn't prove buddhism is 'right' but, rather, makes it useful.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tantric View Post
    we, in general, flat accept the scientific method and what it says about the material world...now.
    So, you accept the science that your religious beliefs don't filter out.
    Like every religion out there...

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