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Thread: Is It Hateful To Believe In Hell? Bernie Sanders' Questions Prompt Backlash

  1. Top | #71
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    The statement said "atheists are vile". Not "an atheist can be vile".
    What's the difference?
    The former is a statement about the character of atheists. It means an atheist is necessarily vile. The latter is a statement about the potential character of atheist. An atheist has the potential to be vile but that potential may not be realized. In other words, not every atheist is necessarily vile.

    Perhaps a different example can cement the subtle difference. Compare "Catholics are fuckwitted pedophiles" with "Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles".


    Of course atheists can be vile. Who is stopping them?

    Are. Can be.

    *shrug*
    Last edited by Lion IRC; 06-20-2017 at 12:28 PM.

  2. Top | #72
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    The statement said "atheists are vile". Not "an atheist can be vile".
    What's the difference?
    The former is a statement about the character of atheists. It means an atheist is necessarily vile. The latter is a statement about the potential character of atheist. An atheist has the potential to be vile but that potential may not be realized. In other words, not every atheist is necessarily vile.

    Perhaps a different example can cement the subtle difference. Compare "Catholics are fuckwitted pedophiles" with "Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles".


    Of course atheists can be vile. Who is stopping them?

    Are. Can be.

    *shrug*
    Atheists, like everybody else, are stopped from being vile by external and internal forces such as friends, family, law enforcement, social norms, the threat of fines/prison, compassion for others, and simple lack of motivation. Believers do not differ from atheists in this respect, unless it can be shown that God literally stops vile people before they can do vile things. Clearly he doesn't stop all of them, otherwise there wouldn't be any vile people. I suspect the actual implication is that the threat of punishment from God stops believers from being vile in a way that all of the other external and internal forces mentioned above are unable to accomplish.

    But obviously, all people wish to avoid negative consequences of their behavior, whether they be earthly or in the afterlife. The threat of punishment from God does not seem to produce an additional impediment to bad behavior, over and beyond the threat of legal repercussions, loss of one's property, isolation from society, incarceration, and potentially death by execution. Otherwise, there would be a clear difference between the proportion of believers who engage in bad behavior and the proportion of atheists who do so. This is not what we observe, at least not to the degree that your "who is stopping them" comment suggests.

  3. Top | #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    The statement said "atheists are vile". Not "an atheist can be vile".
    What's the difference?
    The former is a statement about the character of atheists. It means an atheist is necessarily vile. The latter is a statement about the potential character of atheist. An atheist has the potential to be vile but that potential may not be realized. In other words, not every atheist is necessarily vile.

    Perhaps a different example can cement the subtle difference. Compare "Catholics are fuckwitted pedophiles" with "Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles".


    Of course atheists can be vile. Who is stopping them?

    Are. Can be.

    *shrug*
    You asked what the difference was. Either you understand it now or you don't.

    If you are being consistent, you agree that Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles because who is stopping them?

  4. Top | #74
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post

    If you are being consistent, you agree that Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles because who is stopping them?
    Certainly not God.

  5. Top | #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    The statement said "atheists are vile". Not "an atheist can be vile".
    What's the difference?
    The former is a statement about the character of atheists. It means an atheist is necessarily vile. The latter is a statement about the potential character of atheist. An atheist has the potential to be vile but that potential may not be realized. In other words, not every atheist is necessarily vile.

    Perhaps a different example can cement the subtle difference. Compare "Catholics are fuckwitted pedophiles" with "Catholics can be fuckwitted pedophiles".


    Of course atheists can be vile. Who is stopping them?

    Are. Can be.

    *shrug*
    The meaning of the statements is very different. Compare the following two (for instance):

    1. Christians can be murderers.
    2. Christians are murderers.

    The first one is true, and the second one is false.

  6. Top | #76
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Who introduced the question about atheists being vile?
    ...oh yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis View Post
    It is hateful to believe atheists are "vile and corrupt".
    If someone IS vile what does it matter that they can be vile?
    If there were a law against being vile, then we might say you can't be vile.

  7. Top | #77
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Who introduced the question about atheists being vile?
    ...oh yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis View Post
    It is hateful to believe atheists are "vile and corrupt".
    If someone IS vile what does it matter that they can be vile?
    If there were a law against being vile, then we might say you can't be vile.
    I'm sorry, but this strikes me as a cop out. Christians have been INSISTING for two thousand years that the power of Jesus can change lives for the better. It's at the root of their theology. It's at the root of their beliefs. If I'm not mistaken, it's a core component of YOUR belief. It's Matthew 7:15-20, one of the most popular verses in the bible. It is a panacea for addictive behavior. It's a way for Christians to identify false Christians, and a way for Christians to supposedly identify each other. Just one problem: it's bullshit. We don't see Christians as a whole being wiser, kinder, more understanding, more loving. In fact, many times, we see the exact opposite. Christians are often VILE and exclusionary by their own standard.

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