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Thread: Morality and civilization

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    Morality and civilization

    A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

    A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
    The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

    But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same.
    We are not all the same.
    For example if we treated everyone as though they were an extrovert then introverts would suffer greatly.
    Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is what I would call pseudo-civilization .
    There is no such thing as moral or immoral behavior. Only civilized and uncivilized behavior. Civilized laws are laws that do not give any one person or any one group of people any special rights above what all others have. The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    If your children are bored, is it less moral to steal cable vision, or to steal money and pay for cable vision?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    If your children are bored, is it less moral to steal cable vision, or to steal money and pay for cable vision?
    you will have to ask the judge that
    There is no such thing as moral or immoral behavior. Only civilized and uncivilized behavior. Civilized laws are laws that do not give any one person or any one group of people any special rights above what all others have. The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    If your children are bored, is it less moral to steal cable vision, or to steal money and pay for cable vision?
    you will have to ask the judge that
    We get at least 3 or 4 threads like this a month and almost no one understands morality. They think it has something to do with the Golden Rule.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    If your children are bored, is it less moral to steal cable vision, or to steal money and pay for cable vision?
    If the child is bored give them something to do or tell them to go play in the traffic.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

    A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
    The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

    But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same.
    We are not all the same.
    For example if we treated everyone as though they were an extrovert then introverts would suffer greatly.
    Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is what I would call pseudo-civilization .
    "Civilization" is just a label agrarians came up with because they thought they were so much better than those pastoral nomads and forest foragers. All "Civilized" means is that the society is agrarian and has reached an arbitrary level of technical and social development.
    Sure, shooting them in the back is illegal in those circumstances, but e cop getting convicted is not doing any good to the dead guy.

    -Derec

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    Veteran Member seyorni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    If your children are bored, is it less moral to steal cable vision, or to steal money and pay for cable vision?
    Take them to the library and let them pick out a few books for themselves.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordKiran View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

    A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
    The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

    But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same.
    We are not all the same.
    For example if we treated everyone as though they were an extrovert then introverts would suffer greatly.
    Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is what I would call pseudo-civilization .
    "Civilization" is just a label agrarians came up with because they thought they were so much better than those pastoral nomads and forest foragers. All "Civilized" means is that the society is agrarian and has reached an arbitrary level of technical and social development.
    Er.. No.

    'Civitas' is the Latin word for 'city' or 'town'; 'Civilization' means 'the proper behaviour of one who inhabits a city'; such a person being a 'Civis' or in English, 'citizen'.

    Latin also uses the word 'Urbs' for larger and more developed towns, from which we get the words 'urban' and the appropriate behaviour - to be 'urbane'.

    The Greek equivalent is 'Polis', from which we get the word 'Polite'.

    In all three cases, the idea is that when you are an agrarian society, you can be an asshole, because most of the time you don't have to interact with strangers; But once you live in a town, interactions with strangers are frequent, and if you don't want to be stabbed or beaten, you need to become civilized and urbane, and to behave politely.

    So civilized specifically means that a society is no longer agrarian, and originated with the non-agrarian parts of those societies that first began to live in urban environments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LordKiran View Post

    "Civilization" is just a label agrarians came up with because they thought they were so much better than those pastoral nomads and forest foragers. All "Civilized" means is that the society is agrarian and has reached an arbitrary level of technical and social development.
    Er.. No.

    'Civitas' is the Latin word for 'city' or 'town'; 'Civilization' means 'the proper behaviour of one who inhabits a city'; such a person being a 'Civis' or in English, 'citizen'.

    Latin also uses the word 'Urbs' for larger and more developed towns, from which we get the words 'urban' and the appropriate behaviour - to be 'urbane'.

    The Greek equivalent is 'Polis', from which we get the word 'Polite'.

    In all three cases, the idea is that when you are an agrarian society, you can be an asshole, because most of the time you don't have to interact with strangers; But once you live in a town, interactions with strangers are frequent, and if you don't want to be stabbed or beaten, you need to become civilized and urbane, and to behave politely.

    So civilized specifically means that a society is no longer agrarian, and originated with the non-agrarian parts of those societies that first began to live in urban environments.
    Sorry I was using the words interchangeably here, words like urban slipped my brain when writing this out so I used the next best thing I could think of that would represent what I was trying to say.
    Sure, shooting them in the back is illegal in those circumstances, but e cop getting convicted is not doing any good to the dead guy.

    -Derec

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    For animals that live in packs or hives or societies the question is merely about what is best for the hive?

    Is it best if the bees fight and squabble and kill one another?

    Is it good if the hive works together to kill invaders?

    Dogs understand it. Protect the pack, attack and kill that which is not the pack.

    That these biological realities are codified into things like moral systems within a society of apes with language is not surprising.

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