Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 119

Thread: Hurricane Harvey and Climate Change

  1. Top | #1
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    9,001
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    18,041
    Rep Power
    87

    Hurricane Harvey and Climate Change

    Reading a Houston warning.

    My heart goes out to people in the middle of danger and I hope they are all safe and stay safe.
    Meanwhile, this paragraph contains the most blistering irony of the day. Can anyone spot it?


    This community will have to come together after another devastating flood that seems likely to approach the same magnitude as that of our previous reference event, Tropical Storm Allison. That is two historic floods in less than two decades. Hopefully, we will learn from this. Certainly, we will rebuild.
    https://spacecityweather.com/a-bad-s...se-much-worse/

    And then there are the claims of the climate change deniers in the comments section. Holy shit.

  2. Top | #2
    Deus Meumque Jus
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canada's London
    Posts
    10,149
    Archived
    9,514
    Total Posts
    19,663
    Rep Power
    49
    It's unfortunate, but in a way I don't blame people.

    People don't want to accept that the beautiful world we created in the last hundred years might have been a huge mistake. They don't want to accept that our stunning level of affluence, free-time, and worldly pleasures may become more and more at risk. They don't want to believe that 'God-like' human-kind may be stunningly fallible. Many just want to believe that they're in a nice little bubble, where the outside world can't touch them. They want to raise their kids in their yards, surrounded by picket-fences, and pretend that nothing is wrong.

    To me it doesn't look much different from belief in religion. Climate change denial is akin to a psychological mechanism that lets people believe all is well, despite obvious, cruel, and harsh realities about the world around us. It shields people from the cognitive dissonance they'd experience if they accepted that human-kind is really not that great, smart, or meaningful.

    Unfortunately, you can dodge your responsibilities, but you can't dodge the consequences of dodging your responsibilities, as we are now (not in the future) witnessing.

  3. Top | #3
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    9,001
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    18,041
    Rep Power
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    It's unfortunate, but in a way I don't blame people.

    [...]

    Unfortunately, you can dodge your responsibilities, but you can't dodge the consequences of dodging your responsibilities, as we are now (not in the future) witnessing.
    Yes to all of this.

  4. Top | #4
    Formerly Joedad
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    6,092
    Archived
    5,039
    Total Posts
    11,131
    Rep Power
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    It's unfortunate, but in a way I don't blame people.

    People don't want to accept that the beautiful world we created in the last hundred years might have been a huge mistake. They don't want to accept that our stunning level of affluence, free-time, and worldly pleasures may become more and more at risk. They don't want to believe that 'God-like' human-kind may be stunningly fallible. Many just want to believe that they're in a nice little bubble, where the outside world can't touch them. They want to raise their kids in their yards, surrounded by picket-fences, and pretend that nothing is wrong.

    To me it doesn't look much different from belief in religion. Climate change denial is akin to a psychological mechanism that lets people believe all is well, despite obvious, cruel, and harsh realities about the world around us. It shields people from the cognitive dissonance they'd experience if they accepted that human-kind is really not that great, smart, or meaningful.

    Unfortunately, you can dodge your responsibilities, but you can't dodge the consequences of dodging your responsibilities, as we are now (not in the future) witnessing.
    Houston's problem is less about climate change than about there being large human populations located where there once were none. The pictures from the Houston area of devastating floodwaters are more related to the structures humans have built that impede the penetration of rainwater into the ground. Yes, sea levels are rising but that isn't Houston's problem and isn't what is causing the flooding. Water doesn't percolate through asphalt roads and concrete driveways. Rather it runs off and collects as it makes its way downstream. But floodplains are now populated with more asphalt and more concrete, sidewalks and rooftops, so water simply can't flow away fast enough.

    And lets remember that during Noah's big rainstorm those 50 inches Houston is getting over five days hit the ground in about the first eight minutes, and then continued at that rate for about six weeks.

  5. Top | #5
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    10,705
    Archived
    11,804
    Total Posts
    22,509
    Rep Power
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    Houston's problem is less about climate change than about there being large human populations located where there once were none. The pictures from the Houston area of devastating floodwaters are more related to the structures humans have built that impede the penetration of rainwater into the ground. Yes, sea levels are rising but that isn't Houston's problem and isn't what is causing the flooding. Water doesn't percolate through asphalt roads and concrete driveways...
    Although I understand your general point and don't entirely disagree, I do have a couple of comments...

    First, climate change does not solely refer to sea level rise. The very fact of the intensity of Harvey (and other recent hurricanes) is very likely caused by climate change.

    Second, while it is likely not the case in Houston, ground water rising through the asphalt is a thing. It happens in Miami Beach all the time.

  6. Top | #6
    Deus Meumque Jus
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canada's London
    Posts
    10,149
    Archived
    9,514
    Total Posts
    19,663
    Rep Power
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenSky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    Houston's problem is less about climate change than about there being large human populations located where there once were none. The pictures from the Houston area of devastating floodwaters are more related to the structures humans have built that impede the penetration of rainwater into the ground. Yes, sea levels are rising but that isn't Houston's problem and isn't what is causing the flooding. Water doesn't percolate through asphalt roads and concrete driveways...
    Although I understand your general point and don't entirely disagree, I do have a couple of comments...

    First, climate change does not solely refer to sea level rise. The very fact of the intensity of Harvey (and other recent hurricanes) is very likely caused by climate change.

    Second, while it is likely not the case in Houston, ground water rising through the asphalt is a thing. It happens in Miami Beach all the time.
    Yes. Extreme weather events are now the new normal, unfortunately. Hurricanes like Harvey are going to start coming at us fast.

  7. Top | #7
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Searching for reality along the long and winding road
    Posts
    5,468
    Archived
    12,976
    Total Posts
    18,444
    Rep Power
    65
    Hurricanes like Harvey are not abnormal. It is only that it came ashore at a densely populated area like Houston that made it so destructive, the same for Katrina. The 1969 hurricane, Camille, was much, much worse except it came ashore at a less densely populated area of the Mississippi coast. Hurricane Camille was so severe that it didn't leave hardly any rubble along the coast - it was all blown or washed twenty miles inland. Had Camille hit Houston or New Orleans, those cities would have been gone rather than just flooded. Even during the Spanish conquest of the Americas in the 1500s, many of their ships vanished during strong hurricanes.

  8. Top | #8
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    9,001
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    18,041
    Rep Power
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Hurricanes like Harvey are not abnormal. It is only that it came ashore at a densely populated area like Houston that made it so destructive, the same for Katrina. The 1969 hurricane, Camille, was much, much worse except it came ashore at a less densely populated area of the Mississippi coast. Hurricane Camille was so severe that it didn't leave hardly any rubble along the coast - it was all blown or washed twenty miles inland. Had Camille hit Houston or New Orleans, those cities would have been gone rather than just flooded. Even during the Spanish conquest of the Americas in the 1500s, many of their ships vanished during strong hurricanes.
    It's not that Harvey is abnormal. No _one_ of the events is abnormal. It's the frequency of severe that is being studied. The frequency of intense storms.

  9. Top | #9
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Searching for reality along the long and winding road
    Posts
    5,468
    Archived
    12,976
    Total Posts
    18,444
    Rep Power
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Hurricanes like Harvey are not abnormal. It is only that it came ashore at a densely populated area like Houston that made it so destructive, the same for Katrina. The 1969 hurricane, Camille, was much, much worse except it came ashore at a less densely populated area of the Mississippi coast. Hurricane Camille was so severe that it didn't leave hardly any rubble along the coast - it was all blown or washed twenty miles inland. Had Camille hit Houston or New Orleans, those cities would have been gone rather than just flooded. Even during the Spanish conquest of the Americas in the 1500s, many of their ships vanished during strong hurricanes.
    It's not that Harvey is abnormal. No _one_ of the events is abnormal. It's the frequency of severe that is being studied. The frequency of intense storms.
    According to NOAA, the average number of hurricanes between 1968 and 2016 was 6.2 with a standard deviation of 2.9. 2015 there were 4 hurricanes and 2016 had 7 hurricanes. Both years were within the standard deviation for hurricane frequency.

    I don't know why NOAA chose that time period but it seems from their lists that the average would not change much if the time period were extended further back. Unfortunately, there isn't real good information on hurricane frequency before the mid-1900s since many hurricanes that didn't make landfall would not have been known to have happened.
    Last edited by skepticalbip; 08-28-2017 at 05:28 AM.

  10. Top | #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    philippines
    Posts
    5
    Archived
    5,516
    Total Posts
    5,521
    Rep Power
    67
    Have to disagree with those who believe that human activity is the primary cause of global warming since 1850 CE or AD. I have been on this forum from FRDB and for 5 years , I have not seen a single piece of EVIDENCE that humans are the main cause of global warming. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that humans are not the cause. The temperature chart below says so.

    Evidence does not mean theories by NASA or NOAA or computer simulations by UN-IPCC. Evidence has to be factual from the past, an accomplished event.

    Image result for holocene temperature chart

Similar Threads

  1. Global Warming to Climate change to Climate Catastrophe.
    By T.G.G. Moogly in forum Natural Science
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 10-20-2018, 06:07 PM
  2. Hurricane Ophelia - Actual evidence of climate change?
    By Jimmy Higgins in forum Natural Science
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-18-2017, 06:43 PM
  3. Texas Coast Braces for Trump's Reaction to Hurricane Harvey's Landfall
    By Jimmy Higgins in forum US Presidential Politics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-28-2017, 04:48 PM
  4. Climate Change
    By fast in forum Natural Science
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-24-2017, 04:59 PM
  5. Climate Change Fanatics Confront Growing Evil - Climate Lukewarmers
    By maxparrish in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 01-28-2015, 03:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •