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Thread: Home Brewing Wine - small batch

  1. Top | #21
    Formerly Joedad
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    This morning I skimmed off the pureed pawpaw flesh from the 4th batch of must. I feel terrible now for having discarded it as I was in a hurry and only tasted it at the very end. It was absolutely delicious, with the bite of fermentation but still very sweet. It would have made a great dessert or an addition to something else. I'll never discard this part of the process again, it's good food and would have eaten like a fine healthy custard. Reminded me of creme brulee.

  2. Top | #22
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    This morning I skimmed off the pureed pawpaw flesh from the 4th batch of must. I feel terrible now for having discarded it as I was in a hurry and only tasted it at the very end. It was absolutely delicious, with the bite of fermentation but still very sweet. It would have made a great dessert or an addition to something else. I'll never discard this part of the process again, it's good food and would have eaten like a fine healthy custard. Reminded me of creme brulee.
    Ah well. Needs must.

  3. Top | #23
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    plus its illegal. wine and beer isn't.
    lol.

  4. Top | #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    This morning I skimmed off the pureed pawpaw flesh from the 4th batch of must. I feel terrible now for having discarded it as I was in a hurry and only tasted it at the very end. It was absolutely delicious, with the bite of fermentation but still very sweet. It would have made a great dessert or an addition to something else. I'll never discard this part of the process again, it's good food and would have eaten like a fine healthy custard. Reminded me of creme brulee.
    Interesting... If it was a fruit ale you were making, that puree would be mixed with Trub - a tan substance created by the yeast (or maybe it IS dead yeast - I forget).. and would taste like Satan's ass. I guess wine yeast is more like Lager yeast.. bottom feeding?

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malintent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    This morning I skimmed off the pureed pawpaw flesh from the 4th batch of must. I feel terrible now for having discarded it as I was in a hurry and only tasted it at the very end. It was absolutely delicious, with the bite of fermentation but still very sweet. It would have made a great dessert or an addition to something else. I'll never discard this part of the process again, it's good food and would have eaten like a fine healthy custard. Reminded me of creme brulee.
    Interesting... If it was a fruit ale you were making, that puree would be mixed with Trub - a tan substance created by the yeast (or maybe it IS dead yeast - I forget).. and would taste like Satan's ass. I guess wine yeast is more like Lager yeast.. bottom feeding?
    I really don't know who feeds where. Satan's ass...that's funny.

    This is the yeast I used:

    Lalvin EC-1118 (Prise de Mousse) : This is the original, steady, low foamer, excellent for barrel fermentation or for working on heavy suspended pulps. It is one of the most popular wine yeasts in the world. It ferments well at low temperatures, flocculates well, and produces very compact lees. It is good for Champagne bases, secondary (bottle) fermentations, restarting stuck fermentations, and for late harvest grapes. It is also the yeast of choice for apple, crabapple, cranberry, hawthorn, and cherry wines. It has excellent organoleptic properties and should be in every vinter's refrigerator. Alcohol toxicity is 18% and it ferments relatively fast. It tolerates temperatures from 39-95° F. It is not, however, tolerant of concurrent malolactic fermentation.
    Strains of Wine Yeast

    I noticed now that it does not tolerate malolactic fermentation, but it says it's a yeast for apple wine. Time will tell as this is an apple wine. Seems okay so far.

    When I started the must I pureed several pounds of fresh fruit and mixed it with apple juice, added sugar to get the potential alcohol up, and let that sit for 24 hours before adding the yeast. You're supposed to then stir it once a day for the first five days. When I did the puree was always on top, getting kinda lumpy, and the mixture would fizz like crazy.

    This stuff tasted great. Wine vs beer making must be different. Probably the yeast as you say.

  6. Top | #26
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    Doesn't look like you have to worry about it during the primary fermentation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

    That's cool. So secondary fermentation by bacteria is what cuts the edge (acidity) off of some of the tarter wines. Never liked acidic wines. I wonder if there is an enzyme that can be added to wines to do something with the malic acid, instead of putting it through secondary fermentation? Say you have a bottle of wine that you want to condition quickly?

    The wine snobs I know would consider this "breaking the rules", but I've found "oak flavoring" online too....

  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Doesn't look like you have to worry about it during the primary fermentation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

    That's cool. So secondary fermentation by bacteria is what cuts the edge (acidity) off of some of the tarter wines. Never liked acidic wines. I wonder if there is an enzyme that can be added to wines to do something with the malic acid, instead of putting it through secondary fermentation? Say you have a bottle of wine that you want to condition quickly?

    The wine snobs I know would consider this "breaking the rules", but I've found "oak flavoring" online too....
    At the local brew stores you can buy all kinds of things, including oak chips, I suppose to add to the must to give it oakiness and tannins. This wine-making stuff can get way complicated, which is why I decided early on to keep it simple.

    On the 25th I mixed up a 5th batch, which is bubbling away quite nicely. To this batch I added a banana because I read it can impart some nice flavors on a fruit wine.

    And while at the brew store I noticed a yeast that is specifically for fruit wines. According to the experts it leaves behind more of the fruity aromas and flavors without sweetening the wine. It doesn't have the same temperature range as the yeast I used so far but I will use it on the next batch to see how it behaves.

    The fruit mash that sits on top at primary fermentation is quite tasty. Had some with breakfast the other day. Gave me a slight buzz! Whodda thunkit!

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Doesn't look like you have to worry about it during the primary fermentation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

    That's cool. So secondary fermentation by bacteria is what cuts the edge (acidity) off of some of the tarter wines. Never liked acidic wines. I wonder if there is an enzyme that can be added to wines to do something with the malic acid, instead of putting it through secondary fermentation? Say you have a bottle of wine that you want to condition quickly?

    The wine snobs I know would consider this "breaking the rules", but I've found "oak flavoring" online too....
    At the local brew stores you can buy all kinds of things, including oak chips, I suppose to add to the must to give it oakiness and tannins. This wine-making stuff can get way complicated, which is why I decided early on to keep it simple.

    On the 25th I mixed up a 5th batch, which is bubbling away quite nicely. To this batch I added a banana because I read it can impart some nice flavors on a fruit wine.

    And while at the brew store I noticed a yeast that is specifically for fruit wines. According to the experts it leaves behind more of the fruity aromas and flavors without sweetening the wine. It doesn't have the same temperature range as the yeast I used so far but I will use it on the next batch to see how it behaves.

    The fruit mash that sits on top at primary fermentation is quite tasty. Had some with breakfast the other day. Gave me a slight buzz! Whodda thunkit!
    I am skeptical about adding a banana... at least, with Ale, if you ferment at higher than ideal temperatures, you end up with "fruity esters" being left behind. This is considered an "off flavor" by most judges. It is a banana flavor. One exception to the "off flavor" rule is when it is done on purpose to make an Ale called "Banna Bread". It is a seasonal brew in a Belgium style. Intentionally brewed warm, it comes out really tasting like banana. So, if having fruity esters in a fruit wine is a good thing, then don't "cheat" by adding banana flavor, let the yeast produce those esters naturally.

  9. Top | #29
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malintent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Doesn't look like you have to worry about it during the primary fermentation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

    That's cool. So secondary fermentation by bacteria is what cuts the edge (acidity) off of some of the tarter wines. Never liked acidic wines. I wonder if there is an enzyme that can be added to wines to do something with the malic acid, instead of putting it through secondary fermentation? Say you have a bottle of wine that you want to condition quickly?

    The wine snobs I know would consider this "breaking the rules", but I've found "oak flavoring" online too....
    At the local brew stores you can buy all kinds of things, including oak chips, I suppose to add to the must to give it oakiness and tannins. This wine-making stuff can get way complicated, which is why I decided early on to keep it simple.

    On the 25th I mixed up a 5th batch, which is bubbling away quite nicely. To this batch I added a banana because I read it can impart some nice flavors on a fruit wine.

    And while at the brew store I noticed a yeast that is specifically for fruit wines. According to the experts it leaves behind more of the fruity aromas and flavors without sweetening the wine. It doesn't have the same temperature range as the yeast I used so far but I will use it on the next batch to see how it behaves.

    The fruit mash that sits on top at primary fermentation is quite tasty. Had some with breakfast the other day. Gave me a slight buzz! Whodda thunkit!
    I am skeptical about adding a banana... at least, with Ale, if you ferment at higher than ideal temperatures, you end up with "fruity esters" being left behind. This is considered an "off flavor" by most judges. It is a banana flavor. One exception to the "off flavor" rule is when it is done on purpose to make an Ale called "Banna Bread". It is a seasonal brew in a Belgium style. Intentionally brewed warm, it comes out really tasting like banana. So, if having fruity esters in a fruit wine is a good thing, then don't "cheat" by adding banana flavor, let the yeast produce those esters naturally.
    I agree. Do not use bananas to add banana flavor because bananas produce banana flavored compounds unnaturally.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malintent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joedad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Doesn't look like you have to worry about it during the primary fermentation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

    That's cool. So secondary fermentation by bacteria is what cuts the edge (acidity) off of some of the tarter wines. Never liked acidic wines. I wonder if there is an enzyme that can be added to wines to do something with the malic acid, instead of putting it through secondary fermentation? Say you have a bottle of wine that you want to condition quickly?

    The wine snobs I know would consider this "breaking the rules", but I've found "oak flavoring" online too....
    At the local brew stores you can buy all kinds of things, including oak chips, I suppose to add to the must to give it oakiness and tannins. This wine-making stuff can get way complicated, which is why I decided early on to keep it simple.

    On the 25th I mixed up a 5th batch, which is bubbling away quite nicely. To this batch I added a banana because I read it can impart some nice flavors on a fruit wine.

    And while at the brew store I noticed a yeast that is specifically for fruit wines. According to the experts it leaves behind more of the fruity aromas and flavors without sweetening the wine. It doesn't have the same temperature range as the yeast I used so far but I will use it on the next batch to see how it behaves.

    The fruit mash that sits on top at primary fermentation is quite tasty. Had some with breakfast the other day. Gave me a slight buzz! Whodda thunkit!
    I am skeptical about adding a banana... at least, with Ale, if you ferment at higher than ideal temperatures, you end up with "fruity esters" being left behind. This is considered an "off flavor" by most judges. It is a banana flavor. One exception to the "off flavor" rule is when it is done on purpose to make an Ale called "Banna Bread". It is a seasonal brew in a Belgium style. Intentionally brewed warm, it comes out really tasting like banana. So, if having fruity esters in a fruit wine is a good thing, then don't "cheat" by adding banana flavor, let the yeast produce those esters naturally.
    I have heard about fermenting at too high temperatures and how it negatively affects the final product. That will certainly never be a problem as my cellar in the hottest of summer never goes over 70 degrees. The five batches I've done so far are all doing their thing at 55 to 68 degrees.

    Didn't know about the banana but have definitely heard of off flavors, which I suspect being a newbie I will encounter. But that's okay because I plan on enjoying the product at home and with close friends. Definitely no plans to compete. And doing everything organically presents its own challenges. It's easier using the chemicals but I've chosen not to do so. Judging from the early results I think we'll be okay.

    We've been wine-making for a lot longer than we've had all the chemicals so maybe off tastes are part of what people have always experienced with wine. I like the wines that are made with chemicals but have also tasted home brews from friends and found them very satisfying, even with off tastes. I'm probably old fashioned that way.

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