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Thread: Dregs at the bottom of the barrel - What to avoid

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepTalking View Post
    I was once at a fairly upscale restaurant, and asked what their top shelf scotch was, when the server answered with "Imperial, I think", I nearly got up and left. That would have been a bit awkward, since I had already wolfed down the prime rib, and was just looking for an after dinner libation. I think I ended up ordering an Irish coffee, without asking about the quality of the Irish that would be included.
    Wise move. There are times it is best not to know.

  2. Top | #12
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    God save me from the snobs, wine snobs, whisky snobs, cigar snobs, car snobs, and so on.

    Let's be honest. Alcohol is a colorless, flavorless(to humans) and odorless liquid which is toxic in sufficient amounts. Sometimes flavors are added in the processing, so we'll something to argue about.

    One rule is pretty certain. If the label is glued to the bottle, you'll get your money's worth. The YMW standard is the real way to compare anything on the above list of snobberies.

    MD20/20 starts with a few strikes against it. First, it's sweet and second, it's 18% alcohol, and third, it's cheap. Who could possibly drink that? Someone who no longer drinks alcoholic beverages because they like the bouquet, that's who.

    I'm serious about the label thing. Do not buy wine or whisky that is not clearly marked with a professionally printed label. This is not as big a problem as it once was, but ethyl alcohol(ethanol) is used in many industrial processes and to prevent it from being consumed, a lot of it is poisoned, or "denatured." The problem there is, pure alcohol and denatured alcohol look just alike. A lot of amateur chemists over the years thought they knew a way to separate one poison from the other. It never works very well and the consequences are dire.

    Home made whisky was once a cottage industry(American cottages) which allowed a farmer to convert surplus corn to an easily preserved and easily sold product. Since he intended to consume most of it, a neighbor could trust it as well. There was never a large amount. Two gallons a year would be a very large amount.

    I'm about two generation removed from the days, but I remember my grand-uncles and their stories about illegal whisky, which was made in the woods and sold in jars. A lot of things can go wrong in the distilling process, but you can be assured of one thing. If any whisky is produced, it will be sold. No one ever dumped a barrel of whisky because they thought it might not be right. Some people used truck radiators for a condenser on their still. Radiators are made of copper and brass, and held together with lead solder. Every jar of radiator whisky comes with a fair amount of lead in it. This was usually called popskull whisky.

    Large scale whisky productions are expensive, but more than that, the equipment is heavy and might have to be packed deep into the woods. The cheapest container for fermenting several hundred gallons of pre-whisky mash, is a pit in the ground, lined with a canvas tarp. Once the mash is fully fermented, the liquid is dipped out with a bucket. The fermenting mash has a distinctive aroma and it can be smelled for a great distance. Wild pigs love mash and it was not unusual to find a pig at the bottom of a mash pit. By this time, more than half the mash has been distilled. As I said, nobody every dumped a barrel of whisky because something wasn't right.

    So, stick with printed paper labels, and you won't get that dead hog flavor in your whisky.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    God save me from the snobs, wine snobs, whisky snobs, cigar snobs, car snobs, and so on.

    Let's be honest. Alcohol is a colorless, flavorless(to humans) and odorless liquid which is toxic in sufficient amounts. Sometimes flavors are added in the processing, so we'll something to argue about.

    One rule is pretty certain. If the label is glued to the bottle, you'll get your money's worth. The YMW standard is the real way to compare anything on the above list of snobberies.

    MD20/20 starts with a few strikes against it. First, it's sweet and second, it's 18% alcohol, and third, it's cheap. Who could possibly drink that? Someone who no longer drinks alcoholic beverages because they like the bouquet, that's who.

    I'm serious about the label thing. Do not buy wine or whisky that is not clearly marked with a professionally printed label. This is not as big a problem as it once was, but ethyl alcohol(ethanol) is used in many industrial processes and to prevent it from being consumed, a lot of it is poisoned, or "denatured." The problem there is, pure alcohol and denatured alcohol look just alike. A lot of amateur chemists over the years thought they knew a way to separate one poison from the other. It never works very well and the consequences are dire.

    Home made whisky was once a cottage industry(American cottages) which allowed a farmer to convert surplus corn to an easily preserved and easily sold product. Since he intended to consume most of it, a neighbor could trust it as well. There was never a large amount. Two gallons a year would be a very large amount.

    I'm about two generation removed from the days, but I remember my grand-uncles and their stories about illegal whisky, which was made in the woods and sold in jars. A lot of things can go wrong in the distilling process, but you can be assured of one thing. If any whisky is produced, it will be sold. No one ever dumped a barrel of whisky because they thought it might not be right. Some people used truck radiators for a condenser on their still. Radiators are made of copper and brass, and held together with lead solder. Every jar of radiator whisky comes with a fair amount of lead in it. This was usually called popskull whisky.

    Large scale whisky productions are expensive, but more than that, the equipment is heavy and might have to be packed deep into the woods. The cheapest container for fermenting several hundred gallons of pre-whisky mash, is a pit in the ground, lined with a canvas tarp. Once the mash is fully fermented, the liquid is dipped out with a bucket. The fermenting mash has a distinctive aroma and it can be smelled for a great distance. Wild pigs love mash and it was not unusual to find a pig at the bottom of a mash pit. By this time, more than half the mash has been distilled. As I said, nobody every dumped a barrel of whisky because something wasn't right.

    So, stick with printed paper labels, and you won't get that dead hog flavor in your whisky.
    There is snobbery, and then there is just wanting a decent drink. Lots of alcohol out there drinks like garbage, in the same way concentrated orange juice isn't as enjoyable as Tropicana, or a cheap cut of steak doesn't go down like filet mignon.

    For most people, the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk, and so anything that fits their budget will do. Fair enough. For others, the purpose of alcohol is to enjoy a good beer or whisky, and so quantity is sacrificed for quality.

    I wouldn't look down on someone for downing Coors Lights, I just wouldn't do it myself.

  4. Top | #14
    Senior Member dendrast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whollygoats View Post
    So.

    We have a thread on whiskies and fine spirits which has, on occasion, veered into slams on what posters think is worth avoiding.

    I have three candidates which jump immediately to mind:

    Mogan David 20/20.

    Bohemian Beer.

    Southern Comfort.

    Most folks are familiar with MD 20/20, as it was known on the streets in the local Skid Row as 'Mad Dog'. It and all the 'fortified wines' are fecal matter.

    I suspect nobody outside my regional area will have ever heard of Bohemian beer. It was the 'discount brand' before generic beer came along. It was basically the literal bottom of the vat dregs of whatever local brewer had swill it wouldn't sell under its own name. "When the dough is low, go with Bo."

    Southern Comfort. This is what adolescents think is real hooch. Between it and Sloe Gin, I think I've seen more projectile vomiting result from imbibing. And, talk about 'cloying and sweet'? Southern Comfort has a lock on that.
    As we used to call it, "Sudden Discomfort".
    Any form of Dutch Gin is to be avoided, although gin of any type is hardly an adolescent taste. By you description, I suspect Sloe Gin is sweet.
    "The kids" used to drink Baby Duck instead of wine around here. A sweet, fizzy, alcoholic pop sold as wine. Good for laying down and avoiding.
    Is it stuffy in here, or is it just me?

  5. Top | #15
    Senior Member dendrast's Avatar
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    About forty years ago I started making "kit beer", your basic home made. (I like Cooper's and Munton's, if you even care) It comes out to about a third the price of store bought. But the thing is, it's not only cheaper than, it's also better than. Do you expect homemade bread and store bought to taste the same? Of course not. Home made beer is not only cheaper, it's better (tastier).
    Also, for you Libertarians out there, the malt is taxed (if at all) as food, not as alcohol.
    Pot is supposed to be legally available around here as of next summer. We'll see....
    Is it stuffy in here, or is it just me?

  6. Top | #16
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    Aaah, I had many an evening with a bottle of Mad Dog.

    Another to avoid is EverClear. We used to make a concoction of kool-aid, grape juice and EverClear that we called, “Bullshit,” but it should really be avoided.

    That and Riunite Lambrusco. That was bad stuff, too.

  7. Top | #17
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    God save me from the snobs, wine snobs, whisky snobs, cigar snobs, car snobs, and so on.

    Let's be honest. Alcohol is a colorless, flavorless(to humans) and odorless liquid which is toxic in sufficient amounts. Sometimes flavors are added in the processing, so we'll something to argue about.

    One rule is pretty certain. If the label is glued to the bottle, you'll get your money's worth. The YMW standard is the real way to compare anything on the above list of snobberies.

    MD20/20 starts with a few strikes against it. First, it's sweet and second, it's 18% alcohol, and third, it's cheap. Who could possibly drink that? Someone who no longer drinks alcoholic beverages because they like the bouquet, that's who.

    I'm serious about the label thing. Do not buy wine or whisky that is not clearly marked with a professionally printed label. This is not as big a problem as it once was, but ethyl alcohol(ethanol) is used in many industrial processes and to prevent it from being consumed, a lot of it is poisoned, or "denatured." The problem there is, pure alcohol and denatured alcohol look just alike. A lot of amateur chemists over the years thought they knew a way to separate one poison from the other. It never works very well and the consequences are dire.

    Home made whisky was once a cottage industry(American cottages) which allowed a farmer to convert surplus corn to an easily preserved and easily sold product. Since he intended to consume most of it, a neighbor could trust it as well. There was never a large amount. Two gallons a year would be a very large amount.

    I'm about two generation removed from the days, but I remember my grand-uncles and their stories about illegal whisky, which was made in the woods and sold in jars. A lot of things can go wrong in the distilling process, but you can be assured of one thing. If any whisky is produced, it will be sold. No one ever dumped a barrel of whisky because they thought it might not be right. Some people used truck radiators for a condenser on their still. Radiators are made of copper and brass, and held together with lead solder. Every jar of radiator whisky comes with a fair amount of lead in it. This was usually called popskull whisky.

    Large scale whisky productions are expensive, but more than that, the equipment is heavy and might have to be packed deep into the woods. The cheapest container for fermenting several hundred gallons of pre-whisky mash, is a pit in the ground, lined with a canvas tarp. Once the mash is fully fermented, the liquid is dipped out with a bucket. The fermenting mash has a distinctive aroma and it can be smelled for a great distance. Wild pigs love mash and it was not unusual to find a pig at the bottom of a mash pit. By this time, more than half the mash has been distilled. As I said, nobody every dumped a barrel of whisky because something wasn't right.

    So, stick with printed paper labels, and you won't get that dead hog flavor in your whisky.
    There is snobbery, and then there is just wanting a decent drink. Lots of alcohol out there drinks like garbage, in the same way concentrated orange juice isn't as enjoyable as Tropicana, or a cheap cut of steak doesn't go down like filet mignon.

    For most people, the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk, and so anything that fits their budget will do. Fair enough. For others, the purpose of alcohol is to enjoy a good beer or whisky, and so quantity is sacrificed for quality.

    I wouldn't look down on someone for downing Coors Lights, I just wouldn't do it myself.
    Many years ago I came across a hard cover book in a flea market, titled 1978 Cigar Almanac. This was just before the great cigar revival, so it was interesting to read. Some of the highest rated cigars were Roi-tan Hava-Tampa. These were the cigars sold behind the cash register at grocery stores. The rating system factored in value, so cigars that sold for maybe 30 cents in those days, delivered value. Even though they weren't hand rolled from long filler, they were good quality machine made cigars. They lit and burned without falling apart.

    The cigars I used to buy in those days(early 80's) for about $1.25, now cost $10 or more. As with most things, once you weed out the unacceptable, the quality curve flattens out. The law of diminishing returns is a real bitch. A $15 cigar maybe better than a $7.50, but it's not twice as better. Same goes for steaks and Snap-On wrenches.

    As for Coors light, let's not kid ourselves. Beer is just porridge that went bad and we were really hungry. There's no room to say one spoiled porridge tastes better than another.

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    God save me from the snobs, wine snobs, whisky snobs, cigar snobs, car snobs, and so on.

    Let's be honest. Alcohol is a colorless, flavorless(to humans) and odorless liquid which is toxic in sufficient amounts. Sometimes flavors are added in the processing, so we'll something to argue about.

    One rule is pretty certain. If the label is glued to the bottle, you'll get your money's worth. The YMW standard is the real way to compare anything on the above list of snobberies.

    MD20/20 starts with a few strikes against it. First, it's sweet and second, it's 18% alcohol, and third, it's cheap. Who could possibly drink that? Someone who no longer drinks alcoholic beverages because they like the bouquet, that's who.

    I'm serious about the label thing. Do not buy wine or whisky that is not clearly marked with a professionally printed label. This is not as big a problem as it once was, but ethyl alcohol(ethanol) is used in many industrial processes and to prevent it from being consumed, a lot of it is poisoned, or "denatured." The problem there is, pure alcohol and denatured alcohol look just alike. A lot of amateur chemists over the years thought they knew a way to separate one poison from the other. It never works very well and the consequences are dire.

    Home made whisky was once a cottage industry(American cottages) which allowed a farmer to convert surplus corn to an easily preserved and easily sold product. Since he intended to consume most of it, a neighbor could trust it as well. There was never a large amount. Two gallons a year would be a very large amount.

    I'm about two generation removed from the days, but I remember my grand-uncles and their stories about illegal whisky, which was made in the woods and sold in jars. A lot of things can go wrong in the distilling process, but you can be assured of one thing. If any whisky is produced, it will be sold. No one ever dumped a barrel of whisky because they thought it might not be right. Some people used truck radiators for a condenser on their still. Radiators are made of copper and brass, and held together with lead solder. Every jar of radiator whisky comes with a fair amount of lead in it. This was usually called popskull whisky.

    Large scale whisky productions are expensive, but more than that, the equipment is heavy and might have to be packed deep into the woods. The cheapest container for fermenting several hundred gallons of pre-whisky mash, is a pit in the ground, lined with a canvas tarp. Once the mash is fully fermented, the liquid is dipped out with a bucket. The fermenting mash has a distinctive aroma and it can be smelled for a great distance. Wild pigs love mash and it was not unusual to find a pig at the bottom of a mash pit. By this time, more than half the mash has been distilled. As I said, nobody every dumped a barrel of whisky because something wasn't right.

    So, stick with printed paper labels, and you won't get that dead hog flavor in your whisky.
    Moonshine is available here, commonly called "corn". I used to get some once in a while thru a friend who's doorman brought it up from South Carolina. It came in recycled plastic pints, $5 each. It reminded me of clear Karo syrup, it was an interesting taste.

    I never considered the impurities, maybe that's a good thing.

  9. Top | #19
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio Parker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    God save me from the snobs, wine snobs, whisky snobs, cigar snobs, car snobs, and so on.

    Let's be honest. Alcohol is a colorless, flavorless(to humans) and odorless liquid which is toxic in sufficient amounts. Sometimes flavors are added in the processing, so we'll something to argue about.

    One rule is pretty certain. If the label is glued to the bottle, you'll get your money's worth. The YMW standard is the real way to compare anything on the above list of snobberies.

    MD20/20 starts with a few strikes against it. First, it's sweet and second, it's 18% alcohol, and third, it's cheap. Who could possibly drink that? Someone who no longer drinks alcoholic beverages because they like the bouquet, that's who.

    I'm serious about the label thing. Do not buy wine or whisky that is not clearly marked with a professionally printed label. This is not as big a problem as it once was, but ethyl alcohol(ethanol) is used in many industrial processes and to prevent it from being consumed, a lot of it is poisoned, or "denatured." The problem there is, pure alcohol and denatured alcohol look just alike. A lot of amateur chemists over the years thought they knew a way to separate one poison from the other. It never works very well and the consequences are dire.

    Home made whisky was once a cottage industry(American cottages) which allowed a farmer to convert surplus corn to an easily preserved and easily sold product. Since he intended to consume most of it, a neighbor could trust it as well. There was never a large amount. Two gallons a year would be a very large amount.

    I'm about two generation removed from the days, but I remember my grand-uncles and their stories about illegal whisky, which was made in the woods and sold in jars. A lot of things can go wrong in the distilling process, but you can be assured of one thing. If any whisky is produced, it will be sold. No one ever dumped a barrel of whisky because they thought it might not be right. Some people used truck radiators for a condenser on their still. Radiators are made of copper and brass, and held together with lead solder. Every jar of radiator whisky comes with a fair amount of lead in it. This was usually called popskull whisky.

    Large scale whisky productions are expensive, but more than that, the equipment is heavy and might have to be packed deep into the woods. The cheapest container for fermenting several hundred gallons of pre-whisky mash, is a pit in the ground, lined with a canvas tarp. Once the mash is fully fermented, the liquid is dipped out with a bucket. The fermenting mash has a distinctive aroma and it can be smelled for a great distance. Wild pigs love mash and it was not unusual to find a pig at the bottom of a mash pit. By this time, more than half the mash has been distilled. As I said, nobody every dumped a barrel of whisky because something wasn't right.

    So, stick with printed paper labels, and you won't get that dead hog flavor in your whisky.
    Moonshine is available here, commonly called "corn". I used to get some once in a while thru a friend who's doorman brought it up from South Carolina. It came in recycled plastic pints, $5 each. It reminded me of clear Karo syrup, it was an interesting taste.

    I never considered the impurities, maybe that's a good thing.
    It takes a lot of corn to make whisky and the process is time consuming. Sugar is added to increase the alcohol yielded by the fermentation and in much less time. I don't know if it's still the law, but in North Carolina, a person who wanted to buy 20 pounds of sugar at one time, had to have a letter from the county Sheriff. Illegal alcohol production will flourish any place where the government tries to restrict access to alcohol and tries to heavily tax it at the same time.

    The moonshine culture is romanticized, but it's part of the reason that meth is such a problem in rural areas. Cooking meth fits right into the moonshine mystique. Combine that with truck driving culture, where amphetamine use is as old as trucks, and things get really nasty.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dendrast View Post
    As we used to call it, "Sudden Discomfort".
    Any form of Dutch Gin is to be avoided, although gin of any type is hardly an adolescent taste. By you description, I suspect Sloe Gin is sweet.
    "The kids" used to drink Baby Duck instead of wine around here. A sweet, fizzy, alcoholic pop sold as wine. Good for laying down and avoiding.
    dendrast,

    I have an unopened Southern Comfort, bought just to have the fancy bottle in my spirits collection.

    But, reading some posts on here about the said drop, I shall open and pour.

    What's not to like??

    A.

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