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Thread: About to embark on a 30-day trial of meat and water

  1. Top | #151
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    https://www.digestivecenterforwellness.com/
    I listened to several prentations on PBS on nutrition. Ceredentialed doctors with practces using nutrition to treat medical conditions.

    I folioed up with what is on the net. Nutrition is linked to chronic illness, but we sort of new that already.

    Vitamin A, D, and C deficiencies and calcium deficiencies have well known effects. A and D have been added to milk for a long time.

    In Asia Beriberi is treated with whole grain rice. White rice has little nutritional value.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency

    Thiamine deficiency is rare in the United States.[8] It remains relatively common in sub-Saharan Africa.[2] Outbreaks have been seen in refugee camps.[4] Thiamine deficiency has been described for thousands of years in Asia and became more common in the late 1800s with the increased processing of rice

    Nutrition can be linked to depression and anxiety, auto immune problems, and others. It can be linked to edema.

    The health of gut flora can be reflected in general health.

    The shows do not reject red meat, but recommend moderation. You do not need a lot. There is also the issue of antibiotics and growth hormones in meat.

    I generally have a vegetable mix every day. Zucchini, squash, carrots, leafy greens, tomatoes, cucumber, celery, peppers and onions. I have an apple, oranges, or banana in the afternoon and at night.

    Craving I had for junk food and food in general is gone. I can have a meal and it is done. I feel good through the morning or afternoon without any need for snacks other than a piece of fruit. I'll cut up an apple and eat it during the day.

    Along with that eggs, canned salmon, pork, chicken, and red meat. In moderation. My preference is fish.

    When I eat right I get a good feeling in the belly that seems to radiate through my body. When I get off track I don't feel as good. If I get too far off I feel like crap.

    I went through the cycles a number of times. I tried lacto-ovo vegetarian but it did not work for me. I needed some meat to feel good.

    Even with a multivitamins without fruit and vegetables I will not feel right.

    If I am in the groove I get up around six and work out for an hour and stay active all day until I go to bed.

    That's my story such as it is.

  2. Top | #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    I guess if I were the only person to ever eat this way, it would be one thing. But if you look at the reports of people who have done this for years or decades, they are certainly healthier than the average American consuming the standard western diet.
    The standard western diet is quite unhealthy, as any informed person understands. Is anyone here advocating for the standard western diet?

  3. Top | #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    As a side note, you aren't remotely an authority on the subject, so you shouldn't be talking like one, especially on an anecdotal basis.
    There isn't a natural human requirement for fiber anymore than there is one for insulin injections, which some people also need because of their diet and genetic factors.
    Some people can't digest sugar properly... even from childhood (Type 1 Diabetes).
    Nitpick--diabetics have no problem digesting sugar. They have a problem metabolizing it.

  4. Top | #154
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    I guess if I were the only person to ever eat this way, it would be one thing. But if you look at the reports of people who have done this for years or decades, they are certainly healthier than the average American consuming the standard western diet.
    The standard western diet is quite unhealthy, as any informed person understands. Is anyone here advocating for the standard western diet?
    No, but there are probably many people who would consider my diet less healthy than the standard one, for all the usual reasons (cholesterol, fiber, vitamins). We have a cultural fixation with the "mixed" because let's face it, variety is fun and there are lots of delicious things made out of stuff that grows from the dirt. Beyond that, however, I don't see any evidence that all diets should strive for variety; certainly some would benefit from it, of course.

  5. Top | #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    I guess if I were the only person to ever eat this way, it would be one thing. But if you look at the reports of people who have done this for years or decades, they are certainly healthier than the average American consuming the standard western diet.
    The standard western diet is quite unhealthy, as any informed person understands. Is anyone here advocating for the standard western diet?
    No, but there are probably many people who would consider my diet less healthy than the standard one, for all the usual reasons (cholesterol, fiber, vitamins). We have a cultural fixation with the "mixed" because let's face it, variety is fun and there are lots of delicious things made out of stuff that grows from the dirt. Beyond that, however, I don't see any evidence that all diets should strive for variety; certainly some would benefit from it, of course.
    I think whatever works for the individual is good. I also think people can have wonderful lives and pass on at 60, not 80, whether due to plant or animal subsistence. If either yields a healthy happy life, even if more brief, who's to argue really.

    You mentioned that our ancestors survived ice ages and had to subsist on animals because plants were scarce. This is perhaps true in Europe but do you think it holds in warmer regions? Do you think people in the fertile crescent and more southerly environs were not eating plants? All our evolutionary near cousins subsist mainly on plants. Do you think they were once carnivorous primarily?

    Also, consider the European event and ice ages. If our ancestors were living on animals the animals had to be eating plants at some basic level because that is the foundation of the food chain. So plants had to still be around to sustain those populations of animals. I don't think everyone became like eskimos or is that your contention? Does it not make sense to suppose that our ancestors migrated to where game and plants were more abundant, away from ice sheets? That would be my guess. And if they did they had plants to eat despite ice age conditions. Wherever there was game there had to be plants.

  6. Top | #156
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post

    No, but there are probably many people who would consider my diet less healthy than the standard one, for all the usual reasons (cholesterol, fiber, vitamins). We have a cultural fixation with the "mixed" because let's face it, variety is fun and there are lots of delicious things made out of stuff that grows from the dirt. Beyond that, however, I don't see any evidence that all diets should strive for variety; certainly some would benefit from it, of course.
    I think whatever works for the individual is good. I also think people can have wonderful lives and pass on at 60, not 80, whether due to plant or animal subsistence. If either yields a healthy happy life, even if more brief, who's to argue really.

    You mentioned that our ancestors survived ice ages and had to subsist on animals because plants were scarce. This is perhaps true in Europe but do you think it holds in warmer regions? Do you think people in the fertile crescent and more southerly environs were not eating plants? All our evolutionary near cousins subsist mainly on plants. Do you think they were once carnivorous primarily?
    I think that if humans living in one part of the world can do it, all humans can do it, even if they chose not to. That's all I was trying to argue.

    Also, consider the European event and ice ages. If our ancestors were living on animals the animals had to be eating plants at some basic level because that is the foundation of the food chain. So plants had to still be around to sustain those populations of animals. I don't think everyone became like eskimos or is that your contention? Does it not make sense to suppose that our ancestors migrated to where game and plants were more abundant, away from ice sheets? That would be my guess. And if they did they had plants to eat despite ice age conditions. Wherever there was game there had to be plants.
    Of course the game had to eat plants. But that's the beauty of meat: it takes nutrients that are inaccessible to humans and transforms them into nutrients we can fully absorb. My point was that in regions (or during centuries!) of scarce plant content, the only species that could get any sustenance directly from the plants would have been herbivores, which were then eaten by humans who were themselves unable to get much benefit from the same plants. If that was unfeasible or led to a shorter life or chronic health complications, we wouldn't be here.

  7. Top | #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    I guess if I were the only person to ever eat this way, it would be one thing. But if you look at the reports of people who have done this for years or decades, they are certainly healthier than the average American consuming the standard western diet.
    The standard western diet is quite unhealthy, as any informed person understands. Is anyone here advocating for the standard western diet?
    No, but there are probably many people who would consider my diet less healthy than the standard one, for all the usual reasons (cholesterol, fiber, vitamins). We have a cultural fixation with the "mixed" because let's face it, variety is fun and there are lots of delicious things made out of stuff that grows from the dirt. Beyond that, however, I don't see any evidence that all diets should strive for variety; certainly some would benefit from it, of course.
    Variety makes it a lot easier to ensure you're not missing something important in your diet.

  8. Top | #158
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    Generally, my feeling is, if you are eating the whole animal (and not just steaks), you'll be perfectly fine eating a carnivorous diet.

    That being said, research on so-called "Blue Zones", places where people regularly live passed 100 years old and have relatively low rates of chronic health conditions and cancer, tend to find that their diets are vegetarian or minimize animal products.

    Again, all that being said, I suspect eating a fully carnivorous diet (including organ meats etc) then you'll likely much healthier than your average industrialized individual, even if it is perhaps not the global maximum in the diet-health landscape.

    Note, two under-appreciated findings of these Blue Zones are that they all have very cohesive social structures (lack of friends and family is unhealthy) and their lives involve daily moderately strenuous activity (i.e. not running 10 miles every day, but your daily life includes exertion, e.g. daily chores, yardwork, etc).

    And low alcohol/tobacco consumption.


    I'm basically fucked, and I pretty much have to bank on regenerative medicine.
    Last edited by J842P; 05-22-2019 at 02:07 AM.

  9. Top | #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Generally, my feeling is, if you are eating the whole animal (and not just steaks), you'll be perfectly fine eating a carnivorous diet.

    That being said, research on so-called "Blue Zones", places where people regularly live passed 100 years old and have relatively low rates of chronic health conditions and cancer, tend to find that their diets are vegetarian or minimize animal products.

    Again, all that being said, I suspect eating a fully carnivorous diet (including organ meats etc) then you'll likely much healthier than your average industrialized individual, even if it is perhaps not the global maximum in the diet-health landscape.

    Note, two under-appreciated findings of these Blue Zones are that they all have very cohesive social structures (lack of friends and family is unhealthy) and their lives involve daily moderately strenuous activity (i.e. not running 10 miles every day, but your daily life includes exertion, e.g. daily chores, yardwork, etc).

    And low alcohol/tobacco consumption.


    I'm basically fucked, and I pretty much have to bank on regenerative medicine.
    Very likely exercise, including strenuous events that maintain both bone and muscle, along with proper diet have a synergistic health benefit. Neither alone is the best tonic. My sister has osteoporosis so the doc told her to get to the gym and do some strenuous exercise, lift some heavy things, exercises that will maintain the bone. Her diet is excellent but alone not enough to preserve her vitality.

  10. Top | #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Day 477.
    ...
    So what do I eat, now that I've settled into a rhythm? Well, I tend towards beef that has been sustainably raised and preferably grass-fed, followed by eggs and sometimes cheese. I prefer the fatty cuts, and fry everything in high-quality ghee in a cast iron pan to get a nice sear; the inside is usually very rare, as it preserves the nutrients and tastes amazing. For ground beef, I use a sous vide immersion circulator to get burger patties to a temperature of 140F and kill any bacteria while still leaving it moist and flavorful, then quickly sear the top and bottom and eat with eggs and a slice of cheese. I can eat delicious burgers and eggs every single meal for weeks and live incredibly cheaply, but I haven't needed to cut back to that degree. It's just good to know that I can, in case I ever need to.
    ...
    So the important question is from the point of view of a true carnivore what do you think of sous vide cooking? Does it take a long time to cook and does it noticeably enhance the flavor of meats? Do you use marinades? IMWTK

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