Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 78

Thread: Prehistoric Human Migrations

  1. Top | #11
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The North
    Posts
    9,196
    Archived
    9,514
    Total Posts
    18,710
    Rep Power
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Anything on the Australian Aborigines? They've been there for 60,000 years. Further complicating the matters, they had to reach that island by ocean-worthy boats, something that no other groups of people would accomplish for tens of thousands of years. Then, upon arriving there, they had to lose their nautical knowledge and live lives of utter simplicity. When the Aborigines were discovered by English sailors, they had no words for the concepts of "yesterday" or "tomorrow."

    I for one find that baffling.
    https://theconversation.com/island-h...ustralia-93120

  2. Top | #12
    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,874
    Archived
    5,844
    Total Posts
    8,718
    Rep Power
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Anything on the Australian Aborigines? They've been there for 60,000 years. Further complicating the matters, they had to reach that island by ocean-worthy boats, something that no other groups of people would accomplish for tens of thousands of years. Then, upon arriving there, they had to lose their nautical knowledge and live lives of utter simplicity. When the Aborigines were discovered by English sailors, they had no words for the concepts of "yesterday" or "tomorrow."

    I for one find that baffling.
    https://theconversation.com/island-h...ustralia-93120
    That makes sense. Thanks.

  3. Top | #13
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The North
    Posts
    9,196
    Archived
    9,514
    Total Posts
    18,710
    Rep Power
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Anything on the Australian Aborigines? They've been there for 60,000 years. Further complicating the matters, they had to reach that island by ocean-worthy boats, something that no other groups of people would accomplish for tens of thousands of years. Then, upon arriving there, they had to lose their nautical knowledge and live lives of utter simplicity. When the Aborigines were discovered by English sailors, they had no words for the concepts of "yesterday" or "tomorrow."

    I for one find that baffling.
    https://theconversation.com/island-h...ustralia-93120
    That makes sense. Thanks.
    If you're on Twitter give David Christian, historian out of Australia, a follow. He posts a lot of 'big history' like this.

  4. Top | #14
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Lebanon, OR
    Posts
    6,342
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    23,171
    Rep Power
    79
    So the original Australians arrived during the last Ice Age, when southeast Asia extended into much of Indonesia as Sunda, and when Australia extended into New Guinea as Sahul. In between were some islands, but it was not very far between them.

    Australian aborigines are sometimes described as belonging to an "Australoid" race, and there are some physically similar people in Sri Lanka, the Veddas. Nearby are the "Negrito" populations of the Andaman Islands, mainland southeast Asia, the Philippines, Indonesia, New Guinea, and Melanesia. They were the first modern people to settle there, according to the Two layer hypothesis of mainland Southeast Asia, and similarly in India. However, their genetic history was rather complicated, with Melanesians having a lot of Denisovan ancestry and some other Negritos having rather little such ancestry.

    But in the Holocene, populations of farmers then traveled to those places, to India from the Middle East, and to Southeast Asia form South China.

    In Australia itself, about 4,000 years ago, some people arrived from nearby Asia or thereabouts, people who brought with them the dingo, a breed of domestic dog that went feral in Australia.

    Asian Negritos are not one population - Gene Expression
    Unravelling the Genetic History of Negritos and Indigenous Populations of Southeast Asia
    Discerning the Origins of the Negritos, First Sundaland People: Deep Divergence and Archaic Admixture | Genome Biology and Evolution | Oxford Academic
    Genomes link aboriginal Australians to Indians : Nature News & Comment

  5. Top | #15
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Lebanon, OR
    Posts
    6,342
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    23,171
    Rep Power
    79
    Genetic history of the British Isles is rather confusing, with lots of little details but not much of a statement of an overall picture. But from what I've seen elsewhere, Britain's Neolithic settlers likely came from a southwestern European population.

    Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula describes how southwestern Europeans have a lot of European Paleolithic ancestry relative to most other Europeans. So Neolithic southeastern Europeans mixed with the local people as they expanded westward.

    Genetic history of Italy -- the largest contributions are southwestern Europeans in the North and Neolithic southeastern Europeans in the South. Later migrations made relatively little genetic difference, with the exception of Greek settlers of southernmost Italy. This included the Germanic tribes that overran much of Europe over 500 - 1000 CE.


    Genetic history of North Africa -- much of North Africans' genetic heritage is Middle Eastern, from Neolithic farmers that spread from there. DNA history of Egypt -- the ancient population is largely Middle Eastern Neolithic, but modern Egyptians have some additional genetic admixture from south of the Sahara Desert ("sub-Saharan").

    Archaeogenetics of the Near East -- a big mess of an article, but it notes some interesting findings about Jewish ancestry. Y chromosomes reveal that most European, Middle Eastern, and North African Jewish men are paternally descended from a single Middle Eastern founder population. Mitochondrial ancestry is more confused, with one study claiming that many Ashkenazi (North European) Jews are mainly descended from South European mothers, and other one claiming mostly Middle Eastern mothers. But given the Neolithic genetic heritage of southern Europe, that may be ambiguous. Though Jewish tradition states that Jewish ancestry is transmitted maternally, in practice, it has been transmitted more paternally. Interestingly, the Jewish priestly caste of Kohanim, whose identity is transmitted paternally, has remarkable uniformity of Y chromosomes, suggesting a Y-chromosomal Aaron. It was named after Aaron in the Bible, the Kohanim's legendary ancestor.


    Genetic studies on Turkish people, Turkic migration The Turkic homeland is rather obscure, but it is in the region of Mongolia, Xinjiang, eastern Central Asia, and southern Siberia. But over the 6th to the 11th centuries CE, Turkic tribes spread over most of central Asia, and starting in the 11th cy. CE, they became established in Anatolia.

    Genetically, the Turkic expansion is rather difficult to trace. That suggests that it was mainly a conquering elite, like the Roman Republic and Empire. But they overran much of the early Indo-Europeans' steppe domain, and Turkey's name, language, and cultural identity is derived from them. But present-day Turks have only about 10 - 20% central Asian ancestry, and genetically, they are mostly Middle Eastern.

  6. Top | #16
    Member aupmanyav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    New Delhi, India
    Posts
    141
    Archived
    18,926
    Total Posts
    19,067
    Rep Power
    51
    Vedas are much older than 1,500 BC. Definitely around 4,000 BC (location Caspian Steppes when the sun rose on the day of vernal equinox in the asterism of Orion), possibly 5,000 BC at least (when the sun rose ... of Castor and Pollux). But many, huge many number of verses indicate that Vedas were written at a place where there was a two-month long Arctic night. We (Hindus) still have a period of two-months which is called (Ati-Ratra, greater night), and personal names such as 'Dirghatamas' (Dirgha - Long, tamas - darkness), probably people who were born during the long night.

    What is the problem with cow sacrifice? They were beef eaters like many other people. So, their Gods also liked beef and an accompanying drink of Soma. The Gods and the priests both were huge consumers of Soma. Once Indra got on a high after drinking more than he could manage. That is recorded in RigVeda.

    कुवित्सोमस्यापाम ति Kuvitsomasyāpāmiti (Have I not drunk of Soma juice?)
    "Aha! this spacious earth will I deposit either here or there. Have I not drunk of Soma juice?
    In one short moment will I smite the earth in fury here or there. Have I not drunk of Soma juice?"
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10119.htm
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by aupmanyav; 04-16-2018 at 06:42 PM.

  7. Top | #17
    Member aupmanyav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    New Delhi, India
    Posts
    141
    Archived
    18,926
    Total Posts
    19,067
    Rep Power
    51
    Proto-Indo-Iranian
    The Sanskrit term comes from proto-Indo-Iranian *arya- or *aryo-, the name used by the Indo-Iranians to designate themselves. The Zend airya 'venerable' and Old Persian ariya are also derives of *aryo-, and are also self-designations. In Iranian languages, the original self-identifier lives on in ethnic names like "Alans" and "Iron". Similarly, the name of Iran is the Persian word for land/place of the Aryans.

    Pre-Proto-Indo-Iranians
    The Proto-Indo-Iranian term is hypothesized to have proto-Indo-European origins, while according to Szemerényi it is probably a Near-Eastern loanword from the Ugaritic ary, kinsmen. It has been postulated the Proto-Indo-European root word is *haerós with the meanings "members of one's own (ethnic) group, peer, freeman" as well as the Indo-Iranian meaning of Aryan. Derived from it were words like:

    the Hittite prefix arā- meaning member of one's own group, peer, companion and friend;
    Old Irish aire, meaning "freeman" and "noble";
    Gaulish personal names with Ario-;
    Avestan airya- meaning Aryan, Iranian in the larger sense;
    Old Indic ari- meaning attached to, faithful, devoted person and kinsman;
    Old Indic aryá- meaning kind, favourable, attached to and devoted;
    Old Indic árya- meaning Aryan, faithful to the Vedic religion.

    The word *haerós itself is believed to have come from the root *haer- meaning "put together". The original meaning in Proto-Indo-European had a clear emphasis on the "in-group status" as distinguished from that of outsiders, particularly those captured and incorporated into the group as slaves. While in Anatolia, the base word has come to emphasize personal relationship, in Indo-Iranian the word has taken a more ethnic meaning.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan#Etymology

    I do not know if the word 'hero' also derives from the same root.

  8. Top | #18
    Member aupmanyav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    New Delhi, India
    Posts
    141
    Archived
    18,926
    Total Posts
    19,067
    Rep Power
    51
    Here, Aryan movements (the oldest culture that I find is centered at Seroglazov, Volga River Valley, near Astrakhan, Russia, 7000 BC):
    (For a larger image, open the image in a new tab and click)
    I find no proof that IE people crossed Caucasus. The went round Black sea in the West and around Caspian in the East (Hittie and Mittani).

    Last edited by aupmanyav; 04-16-2018 at 07:23 PM.

  9. Top | #19
    Senior Member starwater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    819
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Anything on the Australian Aborigines? They've been there for 60,000 years. Further complicating the matters, they had to reach that island by ocean-worthy boats, something that no other groups of people would accomplish for tens of thousands of years. Then, upon arriving there, they had to lose their nautical knowledge and live lives of utter simplicity. When the Aborigines were discovered by English sailors, they had no words for the concepts of "yesterday" or "tomorrow."

    I for one find that baffling.
    There is the land bridge theory - from wiki
    The earliest evidence of humans in Australia is at least 65,000 years old.[3]

    There is considerable discussion among archeologists as to the route taken by the first migrants to Australia, widely taken to be ancestors of the modern Aborigines.[4] Migration took place during the closing stages of the Pleistocene, when sea levels were much lower than they are today. Repeated episodes of extended glaciation during the Pleistocene epoch resulted in decreases of sea levels by more than 100 metres in Australasia.[5] People appear to have arrived by sea during a period of glaciation, when New Guinea and Tasmania were joined to the continent of Australia.

    The continental coastline extended much further out into the Timor Sea, and Australia and New Guinea formed a single landmass (known as Sahul), connected by an extensive land bridge across the Arafura Sea, Gulf of Carpentaria and Torres Strait. Nevertheless, the sea still presented a major obstacle so it is theorised that these ancestral people reached Australia by island hopping.[5] Two routes have been proposed. One follows an island chain between Sulawesi and New Guinea and the other reaches North Western Australia via Timor.[6] Rupert Gerritsen has suggested an alternative theory, involving accidental colonisation as a result of tsunamis.[7] The journey still required sea travel however, making them amongst the world's earlier mariners.[8]

    Scott Cane wrote in 2013 that the first wave may have been prompted by the eruption of Toba and if they arrived around 70,000 years ago could have crossed the water from Timor, when the sea level was low - but if they came later, around 50,000 years ago, a more likely route would be through the Moluccas to New Guinea. Given that the likely landfall regions have been under around 50 metres of water for the last 15,000 years, it is unlikely that the timing will ever be established with certainty.[9]
    Keep messing with 45

  10. Top | #20
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Lebanon, OR
    Posts
    6,342
    Archived
    16,829
    Total Posts
    23,171
    Rep Power
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by aupmanyav View Post
    Vedas are much older than 1,500 BC. Definitely around 4,000 BC (location Caspian Steppes when the sun rose on the day of vernal equinox in the asterism of Orion), possibly 5,000 BC at least (when the sun rose ... of Castor and Pollux). But many, huge many number of verses indicate that Vedas were written at a place where there was a two-month long Arctic night. We (Hindus) still have a period of two-months which is called (Ati-Ratra, greater night), and personal names such as 'Dirghatamas' (Dirgha - Long, tamas - darkness), probably people who were born during the long night.
    I will concede that there is some support for something like that.

    Sintashta culture
    The Sintashta culture, also known as the Sintashta-Petrovka culture[1] or Sintashta-Arkaim culture,[2] is a Bronze Age archaeological culture of the northern Eurasian steppe on the borders of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, dated to the period 2100–1800 BCE.[3] The culture is named after the Sintashta archaeological site, in Chelyabinsk Oblast, Russia.

    The Sintashta culture is widely regarded as the origin of the Indo-Iranian languages. The earliest known chariots have been found in Sintashta burials, and the culture is considered a strong candidate for the origin of the technology, which spread throughout the Old World and played an important role in ancient warfare.[4] Sintashta settlements are also remarkable for the intensity of copper mining and bronze metallurgy carried out there, which is unusual for a steppe culture.[5]
    Sintashta was far to the north of the Indian subcontinent, and summer days were much longer. I'll give summer-solstice day lengths for Sun up, civil twilight, and nautical twilight. Civil twilight is where much of the sky is still illuminated by the Sun, and nautical twilight is where the sky is illuminated mostly near the the horizon near the Sun's direction.
    • Sintashta (52d N): 16h 30m, 18h 22m, 20h 59m
    • Islamabad (34d N): 14h 16m, 15h 24m, 16h 36m
    • Karachi (25d N): 13h 33m, 14h 33m, 15h 35m

    Shortest-night length:
    • Sintashta: 3h
    • Islamabad: 7.5h
    • Karachi: 8.5h

    So the long days in the Vedas seem like a memory of that Central Asian locale.

Similar Threads

  1. The Prehistoric Origins of African Culture
    By rousseau in forum General World History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-23-2019, 12:50 AM
  2. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-06-2019, 10:03 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-22-2018, 12:28 AM
  4. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 01-30-2015, 05:41 PM
  5. Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress
    By Syed in forum General Religion
    Replies: 191
    Last Post: 06-04-2014, 06:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •