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Thread: If god is true, why are christians so terrible at debating?

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    If god is true, why are christians so terrible at debating?

    If I were debating, and I had A FREAKIN' PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GAWD on my side, I would never lose an argument.

    Yet Christians seem so _alone_ when they talk about proving their god.
    Kinda weird and self-defeating, really.

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    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    God loves the poor and those inept at reasoned debate - that's why he made so many of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    God loves the poor and those inept at reasoned debate - that's why he made so many of them.

    Farting goats are not the stuff of reasoned debates.

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    Raspberry bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    If I were debating, and I had A FREAKIN' PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GAWD on my side, I would never lose an argument.

    Yet Christians seem so _alone_ when they talk about proving their god.
    Kinda weird and self-defeating, really.
    It's worse than that; If god is true, then the followers of the correct sect(s) would always win at, well, everything.

    Sectarian and religious wars would be pointless - the correct side would always win every single battle and skirmish.

    Athletes who dedicate their victories to god would win every competition they entered.

    The very existence of competitors of a different religion, or none, would be impossible in elite sport - such people could never beat their correctly religious rivals to get to the top.

    "Si deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?" cuts both ways. The very existence of effective opponents is proof that god is not on your side.

    Apparently the free will to make awful and incoherent arguments is of just as vital importance as the free will to be raped or murdered. But not as important as all the times that god intervened to perform miracles when there was nobody around to document them closely. Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster are, likewise, great respectors of the free will of people with the ability to closely observe them.

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    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    If I were debating, and I had A FREAKIN' PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GAWD on my side, I would never lose an argument.

    Yet Christians seem so _alone_ when they talk about proving their god.
    Kinda weird and self-defeating, really.
    Because for thousands of years, anyone who disagreed with the church even slightly was jailed or set on fire. They're not used to having to defend their truth claims.

    Muslims are even less used to defending their truth claims, and so are correspondingly worse at apologetics.

    Also, the facts aren't on their side. That never helps.

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    It's analogous to the fossils God plants deeeeeep in the ground -- it tests our faith and weeds out the weak believer. If your side is represented by whimsy, appeals to mood and fantasy, the persistence of legend, C.S. Lewis and The Man With the Fried Egg on His Head, and fuck-all, well, brother, you've got FAITH to move mountains if you stick with it.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    If I were debating, and I had A FREAKIN' PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GAWD on my side, I would never lose an argument.
    I have often wondered why God doesn't give Morgan Freeman the powers Moses had, and the instructions Joseph Smith had... No debates at all, just an announcement, "THIS is the Word!" and everyone would find that compelling and, even if they don't become followers, at least become convinced THAT religion was THE religion...

    It would certainly streamline surveys.
    Are you religious? [_] Yes [_] Why the hell not?

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    Maybe the cat just digs mystery. If he made it too easy for his people to win, then he wouldn't get to jump out from behind the Pearly Gates every day and yell "Surprise, bitches! The correct answer was Mormonism all along!" at all the new arrivals. Eternity is a really, really long time and he needs something to keep himself occupied.

    It's like that episode of Smallville where Clark Kent wants to join the football team. He can't be too good or else his secret's out so he needs to hold himself back and let everyone else think that their efforts are somehow worthwhile.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    "Si deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?" cuts both ways. The very existence of effective opponents is proof that god is not on your side.
    How silly of me. I thought that existence of effective opponents is proof that effective opponents exist.

    And looking at Romans 8 does not make me think that Paul was talking about doing well in debates, sports etc.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    "Si deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?" cuts both ways. The very existence of effective opponents is proof that god is not on your side.
    How silly of me. I thought that existence of effective opponents is proof that effective opponents exist.

    And looking at Romans 8 does not make me think that Paul was talking about doing well in debates, sports etc.
    I think that was the point - that there could be no "effective opponents" in the face of GOD'S TRUTH, only failed opponents.

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