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Thread: If god is true, why are christians so terrible at debating?

  1. Top | #21
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Juma View Post
    But christians doesnt mean that: they (mostly) simply mean that we make our own decisions. That we constains some sort of intelligence that can calculate what to do. That we dont simply play up a prewritten script.
    Sure. But that then stops their answer from being relevant to the question 'If God wants me to do such-and-such, why doesn't he make his desire clear to me?'

    I have the free will to choose to rob a bank, but the law makes it very clear that this is not permitted, and what the consequences of doing it will be.

    I have the free will to choose not to worship God, but God has made the most half arsed attempt imaginable to advise me of his opinion on that choice. The dude's meant to be all knowing and all powerful; He knows what would convince me of the rules, and he has the ability to do whatever that is - and if after all that, I choose to misbehave, then that's on me. He also knows that anyone with half a brain is not going to be impressed with the 500 year old heavily edited writings based on two thousand year old oral traditions from people who thought it was vital to know how hard they were allowed to beat their slaves, but had no thought of writing down rules on washing your hands after tending the sick, wiping your backside, or before eating.

    He seems also to have been inexcusably lax in letting people in the Americas, the Far East and Australasia know the rules - why only tell a bunch of guys in the Middle East, and not let everyone in the world in on the rules?

    Informed decisions need information, and that information is not provided to the vast majority of the world's population. So for us, free will includes freedom from punishment for breaking rules that were never made clear.
    I dont see the problem with that. I mean, it isnt like christians ever said that their god was nice, smart, knew everything or something like that...
    Well their own descriptions of how he will treat people in the afterlife make Joe Stalin look positively benign.

    It's a good thing he's fictional.

  2. Top | #22
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    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).

  3. Top | #23
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first
    OH! I didn't realize.

    So, Dead People corroborate your story! That changes everything!

  4. Top | #24
    Veteran Member Opoponax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).
    Threats and the promise of justice. Even if we don't get justice, never fear, the Christian God is here! ... or there. Or somewhere no one can detect with any senses. But dammit, you better believe (i.e. not be "wicked") or you'll be hanging with Uncle Joe in the Devil's BBQ pit for like fucking-ever.

    Me and Stalin. Equally wicked.

    Doesn't seem just. But it does make me feel nice and witchy. So I got that goin' for me.

  5. Top | #25
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).
    Just curious, do you ever worry that, when you arrive for judgement, that you may find a golden calf rather than pearly gates at the entrance?

  6. Top | #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).
    What kind of surprise? Is Jesus going to jump out of a cake wearing a G-string or something?

  7. Top | #27
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).
    What kind of surprise? Is Jesus going to jump out of a cake wearing a G-string or something?
    Why would a cake be wearing a G-string?

    I'm guessing it wasn't baked in Colorado.

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Why would a cake be wearing a G-string?
    With God, all things are possible.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opoponax View Post
    Threats and the promise of justice. Even if we don't get justice, never fear, the Christian God is here! ... or there. Or somewhere no one can detect with any senses. But dammit, you better believe (i.e. not be "wicked") or you'll be hanging with Uncle Joe in the Devil's BBQ pit for like fucking-ever.



    Me and Stalin. Equally wicked.

    Doesn't seem just. But it does make me feel nice and witchy. So I got that goin' for me.
    Oh dear ,poor sod, why put yourself in with the likes of Stalin? I don't think you go around killing people just to prop up your position or harm people for the fum of it - do you? Sinning (as we all do, and also who Jesus came for ) and being evil (wicked) are not quite the same in terms of where your heart and mind lays , in a manner of speaking.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).
    Just curious, do you ever worry that, when you arrive for judgement, that you may find a golden calf rather than pearly gates at the entrance?
    Lol ... Never crossed my mind.

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