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Thread: For Christians, define god

  1. Top | #11
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    To theists I would make the following request, in addition to your answers, please state how you know that what you say is true. Extra points for supporting details.

    ETA: Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.

  2. Top | #12
    Formerly Joedad
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    I define god as a space spook. More importantly I wish to know why there is god instead of nothing.

  3. Top | #13
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by braces_for_impact View Post
    ETA: Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.
    Second this. I've started a new thread - moderators, can you move the derail posts to it, plz?

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
    2. Didn't come from anywhere.
    3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
    4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
    5. Yes. Logos.
    6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



    Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
    Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?
    #1 souds like transgender issues.

    So god creates the laws by which its thought processes work? It is not in the bible. Did god speak to you or did an angel appear? Maybe a burning bush? How do you know how god works.

    I was asking not about gravity, but how god works. God has fellings and emotions from the Torah. Implies processes.

    As in a court room drama, the burden of proff of your claim is on you.

    This took me to an unexpected place. Realization the Abrahamic god as originaly used was simply a reflection of humans, without science. Thoughts and action just manifest with nothing behind it. God, aka man, just is with no explanation.

    I am not looking to make anyone atheist. If Christianity in the USA was not so intrusive and overbearning I would not care what Christians believe.

  5. Top | #15
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    What is god? female, male, or otrher?
    Where did god come from, did he, she, or it always exist?
    When god created the universe, out of what did he, she, or it make it from?
    When god creates something are there rules or laws similar to science?
    Does god have thoughts? From the bible god can certainly be angry and feel love.
    Is god a being with inner workings, is there an energy source?
    From what I remember of Self-Mutation's postings, the answers to all of these questions varies depending on the needs of the agendas. Any identification of a inconsistency in the godservations, or flat out contradictory qualities reported for the godthing are just 'mysteries' of the divine, not understandable by any mortal.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
    2. Didn't come from anywhere.
    3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
    4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
    5. Yes. Logos.
    6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



    Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
    Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Lion makes a series of claims about what god is. None of it is in the Torah. It is all in Lion's head, filling in the blanks with imagination. In all seriousness for a theist to consciously accept that would be devastating, crushing. A life long belief disappears and the crutches are gone.

    Naked and afraid. It is why otherwise rational skeptical theists fight tooth and nail to maintain the illusion.

    Lion is not very good at apologetics.
    I am happy to argue the case that each of my responses to your questions can be substantiated as scriptural. Wanna do a bible study with me? Here? Now?

    Let's start with my point #5
    You think I'm going to get burned as a heretic for claiming God is Logos?
    How about #3? Creation by fiat. You think that ain't in the Torah?
    Where else do you claim I have erred #2 That God didn't "come" from anywhere. He has always existed.

    You are guilty of some pretty disingenuous point scoring attempts pal.
    You ask questions framed in very unbiblical language like #6 and then pounce on me complaining my answer isn't literally in step with scriptural language. (Whinny and lame)

    I say God makes rules (#4) and you dare to say "you wont find that in the Torah"
    Are you for real? Are you aware the Torah include Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

  7. Top | #17
    Zen Hedonist Jobar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?
    I don't see him around much any more, but Aupmanyav was an atheist who was also a Hindu. (There are sects of Hinduism that are explicitly atheist, though of course most believe in the literal existence of some subset of their many gods.)

    You may find it hard to conceive, but I have met atheist Christians; they consider themselves 'culturally' Christian, although they don't believe in the literal existence of God.

  8. Top | #18
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?
    I don't see him around much any more, but Aupmanyav was an atheist who was also a Hindu. (There are sects of Hinduism that are explicitly atheist, though of course most believe in the literal existence of some subset of their many gods.)

    You may find it hard to conceive, but I have met atheist Christians; they consider themselves 'culturally' Christian, although they don't believe in the literal existence of God.
    There have been Church of England bishops who fit that description.

  9. Top | #19
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    is not out of line for Lion, say what what will on the forum short of chronic personal attacks.

    It is one of a series of attempts at a turnabout on atheists.

    Trump is an expert on shifting the debate to avoid answering questions, an old tactic.

    If you ask me to believe in something whatever it is the onus is on you to define what you are talking about.

    Look at the Greek and Roman gods. Each with specific powers and attributes. undoudedly a reflection of human traits in an idealized form...and then there is the Abrahamic god.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    How about - whatever god you claim exists, I claim it doesn't exist. The goalposts of what a person means when they say the word "god" shift so rapidly and are so inconsistent between any two people that any stance we take in regards to what swe're saying is fictional is rendered irrelevant as soon as the next person enters the conversation. If you have a concept of God, my position is that your concept is wrong.
    This is a much more reasonable response because it at least shows a willingness to engage with the actual definition offered by the biblical theist (Christian) instead of invisible pink unicorns or farming goats etc etc

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