Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 223

Thread: For Christians, define god

  1. Top | #21
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    7,351
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    16,391
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    This is a much more reasonable response because it at least shows a willingness to engage with the actual definition offered by the biblical theist (Christian) instead of invisible pink unicorns or farming goats etc etc
    Don’t you get that, to us, your definition of your god is EXACTLY LIKE invisible pink unicorns and farming (sic) goats?

    Do you still not get that?

    Offer a definition of your god that is not the same as the definition of an invisible pink unicorn.


    But no, you offer insubstantial platitudes and then screech that we don’t engage with your definition differently.
    What did you offer:

    1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
    2. Didn't come from anywhere.
    3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
    4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
    5. Yes. Logos.
    6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.
    The male invisible pink unicorn.

    And then you say we are absurd for brining up oother gods with identical definitions as yours.
    Well...... yes. Those definitions are indeed absurd. They are yours.

    This thread was your opportunity to define your god convincingly. And you took that opportunity and turned your god into a joke by immediately jumping to “atheists should have to define all the gods they reject as not believable!” Freudian slip?

  2. Top | #22
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    7,351
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    16,391
    Rep Power
    80
    Can we please get back on topic?

    Christians - define god.

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    4,597
    Rep Power
    11
    What Lion is avoiding is that his concepts of god are a product of his imagination, there is nothing in the bible. If he thinks god speaks to him and others who speak to god disagree, then either one or both are wrong.

    One of the fallbacks is I believe god exists but god is a mystery beyond my comprehension. Christians always have a way out.

  4. Top | #24
    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    On the wing waiting for a kick.
    Posts
    1,690
    Archived
    2,558
    Total Posts
    4,248
    Rep Power
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    I would be interested to know whether LionIRC agrees with me that this is how he treats gods other than the Christian god. He seems to be of the opinion that they are real, but not 'correct' - perhaps because they are merely obscured or misunderstood views of his 'true' god - rather than that they are purely fictional.
    (I was wondering whether to stick my oar in the water. Nothing ventured, nothing sprained.)
    I am happy to agree with Bilby's view that as a theist I believe that other gods exist (note lower case). They are false in the sense that they make claims that they cannot support but they are real.

    So strictly speaking it is not correct as to characterise me as only accepting one God. The argument used by some atheists that they only disagree in the existence of one more god than me is not correct. They disbelieve in a lot more gods than I do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    What Lion is avoiding is that his concepts of god are a product of his imagination, there is nothing in the bible. If he thinks god speaks to him and others who speak to god disagree, then either one or both are wrong.

    One of the fallbacks is I believe god exists but god is a mystery beyond my comprehension. Christians always have a way out.
    God's total comprehension is beyond me but somethings about him are comprehensible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Can we please get back on topic?

    Christians - define god.
    If you automatically reject everything that a theist proposes then this discussion will rapidly die.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  5. Top | #25
    Zen Hedonist Jobar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,097
    Archived
    9,525
    Total Posts
    10,622
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    One of the fallbacks is I believe god exists but god is a mystery beyond my comprehension. Christians always have a way out.
    Yes, we hear that one a lot. The entirely reasonable response is, then why do you believe this mystery exists? Why have faith in a mystery? For all you know, the God you worship could be Cthulhu, or Baal- or completely nonexistent.

    We don't see many attempts to answer that. Lion, care to give it a shot?

  6. Top | #26
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Searching for reality along the long and winding road
    Posts
    4,731
    Archived
    12,976
    Total Posts
    17,707
    Rep Power
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    (I was wondering whether to stick my oar in the water. Nothing ventured, nothing sprained.)
    I am happy to agree with Bilby's view that as a theist I believe that other gods exist (note lower case). They are false in the sense that they make claims that they cannot support but they are real.

    So strictly speaking it is not correct as to characterise me as only accepting one God. The argument used by some atheists that they only disagree in the existence of one more god than me is not correct. They disbelieve in a lot more gods than I do.
    Thanks for the insight. So your view is pretty much the same as the pantheism of ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, the Norse, etc. only placing the Biblical god as the chief god and demoting Zeus, Jupiter, Ra, Odin, etc. to minor deities.

    I was drilled on the meaning of Christianity by my grandfather who was a Methodist minister. He was a staunch monotheist. Now I have to wonder how many Christians accept pantheism rather than the monotheism that is claimed in all the cannon I am familiar with.

  7. Top | #27
    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Chicago suburbs
    Posts
    11,413
    Archived
    39,172
    Total Posts
    50,585
    Rep Power
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
    2. Didn't come from anywhere.
    3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
    4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
    5. Yes. Logos.
    6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



    Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
    Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?
    Lion, I know you mean well, but it seems silly to make claims about something when you can't prove that something exists in the first place. It's like arguing about the color of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. If you can't offer evidence for god, you can't possibly offer evidence for the various characteristics and properties of god.

  8. Top | #28
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Far Western Mass
    Posts
    15,495
    Archived
    24,500
    Total Posts
    39,995
    Rep Power
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Lion, I know you mean well, but it seems silly to make claims about something when you can't prove that something exists in the first place.
    But he wasn't asked to prove that gods exist, merely to describe what he feels the gods he believes in are like.
    This is actually unusually far from a derail for Lion.
    There may be no meaning to this world, but that does not mean that what I do is meaningless.
    -Mark Lawrence

  9. Top | #29
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,384
    Archived
    3,946
    Total Posts
    5,330
    Rep Power
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    ... the pantheism of ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, the Norse, etc. ... Now I have to wonder how many Christians accept pantheism...
    I think you mean polytheism. I don't know if it's so in your case, but sometimes there's a confusion of pantheism and pantheon. Pan = all, theos = god. Pan + theism = all is god. Pan + theon = all the gods. So, similar roots, entirely different meanings. Pantheism is a monotheism. Its one god is "All that exists as a whole". Pantheon's the list of deities in polytheism.

    I wonder though if it's polytheism if the theist believes the great slew of gods across cultures are gods? Or distorted faces of his own God? Aren't the Greeks polytheists for having their own pantheon?

    The preacher at the church I went to informed us that the pagan gods were demons. To me, that makes more sense. Cuz that way they stay inside their own mythology: One tripartite god-thing, and a lot of fallen angels.

    In another sermon he told us about the atheists... But the first half of the sermon was about devil worshipers. He covered those deceived believers first, before proceeding to the worst thing... the unbelievers. The atheists were scarier for being something you might someday actually become if you "backslid" far enough. That's interesting to me... belief has a virtue to it, so it's better to be a believer in false gods than to "not believe in anything at all". But of course, best if you don't backslide at all.
    Last edited by abaddon; 06-19-2018 at 07:06 PM.

  10. Top | #30
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    16,345
    Archived
    42,293
    Total Posts
    58,638
    Rep Power
    85
    Well, I imagine that from a Christian point of view, if you believe in false gods, you're halfway there. Your mind is already in a "there's some kind of deity" mode and all that's required is updating your beliefs so that they point at the proper deity.

    If someone thinks that it's all fiction, on the other hand, convincing them that your particular god is actually real is kind of like convincing them not to make this one guy angry or else he'll turn into a giant green rage monster. When the whole concept of deities is separated from concepts of reality, there's a much higher bar to clear to get them onto your team.

Similar Threads

  1. For Atheists - define what you don't believe in
    By Rhea in forum Existence of God(s)
    Replies: 333
    Last Post: 07-13-2018, 03:15 AM
  2. Define God Thread
    By Kharakov in forum Existence of God(s)
    Replies: 283
    Last Post: 01-16-2018, 09:52 AM
  3. Define SJW please
    By Arctish in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-16-2016, 08:38 PM
  4. How would one define masculinist?
    By Don2 (Don1 Revised) in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 04-04-2016, 08:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •