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Thread: For Atheists - define what you don't believe in

  1. Top | #21
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by braces_for_impact View Post
    Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.
    The persuasive burden rests on whoever wants to do the persuading.
    If atheists want to remain unpersuasive that's perfectly OK with me.
    That doesn’t make any sense. I have no gods to prove so why would I need to describe one to persuade you? I don’t believe in any God(dess)(es). How would I “define” them? Why would you need to hear about what I don’t believe in?


    Are you trying to ask, like, “A ‘god(dess)’ is a being that exists beyond the laws of physics”

    Is that the “definition” you want? Okay. I don’t believe any of those exist.

  2. Top | #22
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    That doesn’t make any sense.
    It's obfuscation.
    The burden of proof remains connected to the claim.
    If there were a third party attempting to decide the facts in the atheist/theist dispute, both sides would have to provide their reasons for their stance, and each side would have the burden of persuading the third party of their side...

    Lion cannot escape his burden of proof by claiming the atheists need to explain their side, too.

    But apologists love them some tu quoque arguments, whether or not they make any sense.

  3. Top | #23
    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by braces_for_impact View Post
    Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.
    The persuasive burden rests on whoever wants to do the persuading.
    If atheists want to remain unpersuasive that's perfectly OK with me.
    Then that means that all the gods of all the religions are true, but if all the gods of all the religions are true, that means the Bible is false because the Bible claims to represent the one and only true religion of the one and only true god.

    I already explained this in an earlier post.

    If the burden of proof works the way that you say, then your own arguments disprove Christianity. If you are right about the burden of proof, then your god exists, but Christianity is false.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lion, your god is a non-falsifiable existence claim. It cannot be disproved even if the claim is false, but it can be proved if true. If the burden of proof of the Christian god doesn't belong to Christians exclusively, then all the gods of all the religions are real, all because you didn't feel like accepting the burden of proving your own claims.

  4. Top | #24
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    Jesus H. Christ Lion!

    Talk about special pleasing! "I'm a Christian, the rules of argumentation and logic don't apply to me."

    Reminds me of a scene from the film 'Liar Liar'.

    "Your honor I object!"
    "On what grounds?"
    "On the grounds that it's devastating to my case!"
    I take all knowledge to be my province.
    -Sir Francis Bacon

  5. Top | #25
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    Would it be fair to say that many atheists don't believe in freedom of religious expression?

  6. Top | #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    Would it be fair to say that many atheists don't believe in freedom of religious expression?
    I don't think so. Most atheists are in favor of people being able to express whatever they want, so long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on others.

  7. Top | #27
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    Would it be fair to say that many atheists don't believe in freedom of religious expression?
    What makes you think that is fair?

  8. Top | #28
    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    Would it be fair to say that many atheists don't believe in freedom of religious expression?
    No. Not too many generations ago freedom of religious expression meant setting people on fire who disagreed with your religion.

    And we should be teaching our kids world religions and religious history in schools starting in about the third grade It would then probably take one generation for churches to become ghost towns. Kids would know about other religious tales and other creation myths, gods, spirits, and quickly realize that they're not special in their particular flavor. But parents and preachers and all the religious salesmen would be up in arms.

    There's just not much difference between religious imprisonment and religious freedom.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by braces_for_impact View Post
    Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.
    The persuasive burden rests on whoever wants to do the persuading.
    If atheists want to remain unpersuasive that's perfectly OK with me.
    How many gods do you not believe in again? A dozen plus? And then there are the hundreds of formerly worshiped deities you haven't even heard of.

  10. Top | #30
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post
    Would it be fair to say that many atheists don't believe in freedom of religious expression?
    No, I don't think so. Most atheists support freedom of religion, and in fact many are secularists. One should have the freedom to worship, or not worship as they see fit. The issue is that many Christians (I'm speaking of the US here, but it's the same for many religions) think they have a perfect morality handed down to them by a perfect god. This causes problems because such attitudes generally have Christians attempting to legislate their religious rules and making them the law of the land for everyone. Some examples are supporting churches and religious institutions using public funds, attempting to teach creationism in science class, restricting women from having the reproductive health of their choice, and many of the bad policies of the current Trump administration.

    A secularist believes that the government should not support any one religion over another and that the government should be NEUTRAL with respect to religion and religious ideas.

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