Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 124

Thread: What useful stuff has philosophy accomplished for man-kind?

  1. Top | #111
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    OCCaUSA
    Posts
    4,370
    Archived
    3,383
    Total Posts
    7,753
    Rep Power
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Oh dear, you haven't been visiting churches too often in your life have you?

    You light a candle using one that's already burning.
    EB
    And your point?
    We didn't start the fire. It was always burning...

  2. Top | #112
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    21,766
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    38,319
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    And your point?
    We didn't start the fire. It was always burning...
    I think that's a different point.

    Do we mean by "philosophy" the philosophical texts that exists, or the philosophy either written or spoken that created it that doesn't anymore, going all the way back to the first philosophers?

    How can anything come before philosophy?

    Before one steps back and ponders the situation?

  3. Top | #113
    Administrator Never's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    585
    Archived
    5,266
    Total Posts
    5,851
    Rep Power
    65
    Moderation Note: Many posts about other members, rather than the subject of the thread, split to Up in
    Flames area. Please address the subject, not other posters.

  4. Top | #114
    Deus Meumque Jus
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canada's London
    Posts
    10,356
    Archived
    9,514
    Total Posts
    19,870
    Rep Power
    49
    As far as I can tell philosophy has basically made society more rational, but I think the scope of what you'd actually call philosophy in this regard isn't completely clear. If good ideas making things better can be attributed to philosophy, then the act of philosophizing is responsible for every major advance in history. But then, how do you separate what is and what is not philosophy? If we draw the line at people who call themselves philosophers, and who call their works works of philosophy, then 'philosophy' has done much less, although still a lot.

    Practically speaking, 'philosophers' seem somewhat responsible for the beginnings of science, and the enlightenment, which I think is their major contribution.

  5. Top | #115
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,958
    Archived
    6,189
    Total Posts
    8,147
    Rep Power
    46
    I think we have to avoid the idea that philosophy somehow encompasses everything, or else the question becomes meaningless. Just as claims that 'science' includes everything that involves interaction with the real world, ultimately become meaningless. Reducing it strictly to academic philosophy risks the opposite problem - academics generally influence the world by discovering ideas that other people then use, which is why so many of the accomplishments attributed to scientists are, strictly speaking, enacted by engineers.

    In terms of the landscape of ideas, I have no difficulty with the idea that philosophy has contributed both significantly and widely. Certainly within my own discipline of experimental psychology, most of the models and theories of mind and to a lesser extent, brain, can trace their roots to philosophical ideas, and analysis of them can benefit greatly from experience in putting logical reasoning on a formal and systemic basis. From what I understand, higher mathematics has a very close relationship with philosophy. I can well believe that the relationship is less obvious, or even largely absent, in some of the harder sciences, where the theoretical framework is well established and no longer subject to question.

  6. Top | #116
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,317
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,979
    Rep Power
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    As far as I can tell philosophy has basically made society more rational, but I think the scope of what you'd actually call philosophy in this regard isn't completely clear. If good ideas making things better can be attributed to philosophy, then the act of philosophizing is responsible for every major advance in history. But then, how do you separate what is and what is not philosophy? If we draw the line at people who call themselves philosophers, and who call their works works of philosophy, then 'philosophy' has done much less, although still a lot.

    Practically speaking, 'philosophers' seem somewhat responsible for the beginnings of science, and the enlightenment, which I think is their major contribution.
    If one accepts that philosophers have been influential then it's for good as well as for bad ideas.

    In particular, some of Kant's ideas on moral philosophy seem to have influenced some of the Nazy dignitaries (the one procecuted and executed in Israel... Eichmann?). Marx also comes to mind. And my earlier example about Bergson's Elan vital.

    And then I don't see why philosophers would have on average better than average ideas. So, while I can see that a particular philosopher could have had a good influence on the history of mankind I don't believe that philosophical ideas on average have had a good influence. Rather, it's philosophy, as a methodological practice, that may be a positive factor.
    EB

  7. Top | #117
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    21,766
    Archived
    16,553
    Total Posts
    38,319
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    If one accepts that philosophers have been influential then it's for good as well as for bad ideas.
    The history of science is just as full of bad ideas.

    But we don't associate science with the bad ideas. We don't condemn the scientific method because some understand it badly.

    Even in research done today, published research, we find all kinds of bad methods and improper conclusions. These are many times slowly weeded out if the research has any significance, but it happens all the time.

    To me philosophy and science are like matter and energy. The same thing in two different forms. Science has an easier job because it is dealing with the tangible while philosophy deals with this nebulous cloud called ideas.

  8. Top | #118
    Gone
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,782
    Archived
    2,812
    Total Posts
    7,594
    Rep Power
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Togo View Post
    I think we have to avoid the idea that philosophy somehow encompasses everything, or else the question becomes meaningless.
    But it is meaningless! The problem is that those that oppose science to philosophy doesnt know what they talk about.

    It is them that should specify what lart of the immense field of philosophy they have this grudge against.

  9. Top | #119
    Elder Contributor barbos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mlky Way galaxy
    Posts
    10,738
    Archived
    8,047
    Total Posts
    18,785
    Rep Power
    65
    This thread is still alive? how philosophical is that.

  10. Top | #120
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,958
    Archived
    6,189
    Total Posts
    8,147
    Rep Power
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Juma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Togo View Post
    I think we have to avoid the idea that philosophy somehow encompasses everything, or else the question becomes meaningless.
    But it is meaningless! The problem is that those that oppose science to philosophy doesnt know what they talk about.

    It is them that should specify what lart of the immense field of philosophy they have this grudge against.
    The impression I get is that the objection is to critical thought. Science is successful and good, and thus any basis on which science might be criticised is seen a target. If science were more like fundamentalist Christianity, then it would be easier to bludgeon other people with it.

    The objections to this are largely logical, demonstrating that it's illogical to people who consider themselves intelligent requires formal logic, and hence formal logic is viewed with suspicion. The target is not ethics, or moral philosophy, it's any claim to truth that is outside science - formal logic, pure maths, any form of analytical philosophy, and so on.

    Or to put it another way, the impression I get is that those who oppose philosophy want all truth to be located in the field that they are personally familiar with, or derived from it. Just like religious and political extremists of any other kind.

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone using smarthome stuff?
    By Underseer in forum Computers and Technology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-09-2018, 01:35 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-06-2018, 05:19 PM
  3. "Mission Accomplished": Death to America Redefined.
    By Nice Squirrel in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-05-2015, 12:33 PM
  4. What useful stuff has *modern* philosophy accomplished for man-kind?
    By rousseau in forum Other Philosophical Discussions
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 07-27-2014, 06:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •