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Thread: You have to seek God with your heart!

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    Veteran Member phands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    True. I think the saying came about because no one has seen god for thousands of years, so they required some witty phrase to cover for it.

    No one has *ever* seen god, because god doesn't exist.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” Terry Pratchett

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    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    That doesn't matter. I want criticizing a passage from the Bible, I was criticizing a common argument used by both Christians and Muslims. If you want to criticize a Bible passage, please start a separate thread.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerner
    Besides, I thought with my head first (rethinking the arguments I used against Christians) and then the heart followed so to speak. That's the problem with your argument in this regard.
    Finally, an honest Christian who admits that his beliefs are based on his emotions. I applaud you for your honesty. Unlike some atheists, I totally understand and accept that some people need to believe in a god or gods to be happy. As for me, I don't need any gods to be happy or good, and I prefer to use my emotions to show love and compassion toward other people, and animals too, especially my dogs. Dogs are the best. And you know what dog is when it's spelled backwards, right? Yeah. Dog is god! My heart led me to my belief in dogs.

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    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lerner
    Besides, I thought with my head first (rethinking the arguments I used against Christians) and then the heart followed so to speak. That's the problem with your argument in this regard.
    Finally, an honest Christian who admits that his beliefs are based on his emotions. I applaud you for your honesty. Unlike some atheists, I totally understand and accept that some people need to believe in a god or gods to be happy. As for me, I don't need any gods to be happy or good, and I prefer to use my emotions to show love and compassion toward other people, and animals too, especially my dogs. Dogs are the best. And you know what dog is when it's spelled backwards, right? Yeah. Dog is god! My heart led me to my belief in dogs.
    It's hardly reasonable.

    Emotions are not a valid basis for evaluating truth claims. That's not how truth works. That's not how people who care about the truth evaluate truth claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    That doesn't matter. I want criticizing a passage from the Bible, I was criticizing a common argument used by both Christians and Muslims. If you want to criticize a Bible passage, please start a separate thread.
    I don't want to do that. I'd rather criticise your position in this thread.
    You don't HAVE to seek God.

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    Shrunken Member WAB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    That doesn't matter. I want criticizing a passage from the Bible, I was criticizing a common argument used by both Christians and Muslims. If you want to criticize a Bible passage, please start a separate thread.
    I don't want to do that. I'd rather criticise your position in this thread.
    You don't HAVE to seek God.
    I believe, or it seems to me, that Underseer's point is not that people must or "have" to seek God, but that since God cannot be proved or discovered empirically He must be sought and discovered by other means, i.e: feeling rather than intellect.

    Pardon me if I've got you wrong on that, U.

    Kierkegaard wrote: “to have faith is precisely to lose one's mind so as to win God.” - from The Sickness Unto Death. And Soren was a devout Christian.
    If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to a library. - Frank Zappa

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    I like Kierkegaard. He was so often playful and satirical with language.
    Knowing God is transcendent ecstasy and can easily be likened to losing your mind.
    "Precisely" like losing your mind?
    I wouldn't quote Kierkegaard as an authority on literal meanings.

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    Zen Hedonist Jobar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    Lots of threats concerning what happens if you don't, though. The Koran is worse than the Bible in that regard, but neither is slow to damn those who lack proper belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Learner
    Hey... I'm sure there are people that want sci-fi gap filling : Higgs-field, multi -dimensions or dark-matter to be true
    I expect you're right. Those who think of and publish theories in any field of science don't like to be proved wrong. Who does?

    But there's a difference between believing your scientific theory is true, and believing your religion is true. A proper scientist always tries to consider all the things that might lead him into error, and will accept it if other scientists show him an error he didn't consider. (I won't say scientists always do this gracefully, but they do it anyway.) Science involves putting your hypotheses out in public, and let others attempt to shoot holes into your ideas. It may be that small holes can be patched, and the hypothesis modified to be more bulletproof; but no matter how beautiful your theory, you don't cling to it if ugly facts demonstrate it's mistaken.

    You can't say that most religious believers do that with their theories concerning God. (Though I do give you credit, Learner, for coming here and listening to our criticisms. I even grant that credit to Lion; though I have to say he's an extremely slow learner. )

  9. Top | #19
    Shrunken Member WAB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I like Kierkegaard. He was so often playful and satirical with language.
    Knowing God is transcendent ecstasy and can easily be likened to losing your mind.
    "Precisely" like losing your mind?
    I wouldn't quote Kierkegaard as an authority on literal meanings.
    No, indeed, Lion, I wouldn't either! I mentioned the quote because I thought it might be an apt paraphrase to what Underseer may have been trying to get across, even though Kierkegaard comes at the same idea through hard-earned faith, and not the reverse.

    If the quote had come from an atheist, it would sound like mockery.

    By the way, I only recently took a good look at your avatar. I take it to be St Peter, who I believe wanted to be crucified upside-down?

    Some people have taken my avatar, which I use everywhere, to be the Madonna. It's actually an early C20 photo of a Toda woman and her baby: the photo struck me hard when I first saw it and I haven't been able to forget it. The Toda people are a tiny tribe in India. /derail
    If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to a library. - Frank Zappa

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    Veteran Member phands's Avatar
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    Rubbing salt in the wound...

    2 Chronicles 15:13
    and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

    Amos 5:4-6
    For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel, "Seek Me that you may live".

    Amos 5:5-6
    "But do not resort to Bethel And do not come to Gilgal, Nor cross over to Beersheba; For Gilgal will certainly go into captivity And Bethel will come to trouble.
    "Seek the LORD that you may live, Or He will break forth like a fire, O house of Joseph, And it will consume with none to quench it for Bethel


    Matthew 6:31-33
    "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.


    Luke 12:29-31
    "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you. "And do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying. "For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.


    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” Terry Pratchett

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