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Thread: You have to seek God with your heart!

  1. Top | #21
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobar View Post

    But there's a difference between believing your scientific theory is true, and believing your religion is true. A proper scientist always tries to consider all the things that might lead him into error, and will accept it if other scientists show him an error he didn't consider. (I won't say scientists always do this gracefully, but they do it anyway.) Science involves putting your hypotheses out in public, and let others attempt to shoot holes into your ideas. It may be that small holes can be patched, and the hypothesis modified to be more bulletproof; but no matter how beautiful your theory, you don't cling to it if ugly facts demonstrate it's mistaken.
    Yup; Science acceptance of theories is always conditional. Religious belief is always unconditional.

    Uncle Albert had a good summary of the scientific mindset.

    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  2. Top | #22
    Elder Contributor Underseer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    That doesn't matter. I want criticizing a passage from the Bible, I was criticizing a common argument used by both Christians and Muslims. If you want to criticize a Bible passage, please start a separate thread.
    I don't want to do that. I'd rather criticise your position in this thread.
    You don't HAVE to seek God.
    Then why did you try to insert the Bible into this discussion?

    What were you trying to avoid talking about with that change of subject?

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    Yet he says if you sincerely do so, you WILL find him, yet people do not. It's that whole cosmic hide and seek thing, which in my mind, is even more damning (if you'll forgive the expression) than the problem of evil.

  4. Top | #24
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I can't think of any bible verse which says you have to seek Him.
    The thread title doesn't say that, either

    It's not: You have to seek God, (with your heart);

    It's You (have to) seek God with your heart.

    A bright person would have been able to tell that the emphasis was on the method with which God should be sought, and not on the requirement to seek; It's obvious from the OP. But a person desperate for a way to discredit a thread that highlights the stupidity of a common Christian argument could mis-place the emphasis, either due to stupidity or disingenuity (or both).

    So which is it, are you too stupid to grasp that this thread is about the futility of emotion as a means to truth (and not about any mandatory or compulsory task); Or are you able to understand that, but engaging in intellectual dishonesty in either hoping to mislead others, or derail the thread?

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post

    I don't want to do that. I'd rather criticise your position in this thread.
    You don't HAVE to seek God.
    Then why did you try to insert the Bible into this discussion?

    What were you trying to avoid talking about with that change of subject?
    Wait. Why are bible quotes about seeking the Lord off topic?

  6. Top | #26
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    In LDS jargon, you will feel a 'burning in the breast' if you read their scriptures with an open heart, that will tell you that they are true. I did make it through the Book of Mormon ("chloroform in print," in Twain's immortal phrase), without feeling that burn, although there was one night when I read the book after finishing a medium pizza and a liter of Coke.

  7. Top | #27
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Underseer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post

    I don't want to do that. I'd rather criticise your position in this thread.
    You don't HAVE to seek God.
    Then why did you try to insert the Bible into this discussion?

    What were you trying to avoid talking about with that change of subject?
    Wait. Why are bible quotes about seeking the Lord off topic?
    Because you have to seek god with your heart, not some musty old tome. Didn’t you read the op?

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    It's not: You have to seek God, (with your heart);

    It's You (have to) seek God with your heart.
    It's pretty blatant hypocrisy for you to try and dictate which half of the sentence is on topic while telling me that I'm not allowed to argue that you don't "HAVE to seek God."

    Why rant about the supposed "futility of emotion" which you artificially interpreted in latter half of the sentence if the choice to be an atheist and not seek God remains fully intact? You - bilby and phands - aren't forced to seek the Lord. Stop your histrionics.

  9. Top | #29
    Zen Hedonist Jobar's Avatar
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    Lion, this is the Existence of God(s) forum. In a way, "seeking God" is rather the point of it.

    The problem is, we unbelievers find nothing when we seek; and underseer is talking about how believers have told him it should be done; i.e., with your heart.

    But that method is nonsensical, unintelligible, to us. So bilby is right; the real question being asked is not *if* we should seek him, but how.

    I moved several of the posts in this thread to Up In Flames. We do try to keep this forum more civil than all that.

  10. Top | #30
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    It's not: You have to seek God, (with your heart);

    It's You (have to) seek God with your heart.
    It's pretty blatant hypocrisy for you to try and dictate which half of the sentence is on topic while telling me that I'm not allowed to argue that you don't "HAVE to seek God."
    It's not hypocritical to be able to correctly interpret a sentence in its context. And I didn't in any way tell you that you were not allowed to argue anything - If you want to make a stupid counterargument to an argument that nobody is making, that's entirely up to you. I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to warn you that doing so might cause others to think you a fool.
    Why rant about the supposed "futility of emotion" which you artificially interpreted in latter half of the sentence if the choice to be an atheist and not seek God remains fully intact?
    It's not a 'rant', it's an observation about reality. Emotion is demonstrably a poor guide to truth. Whether or not it is mandatory, necessary, useful, or merely interesting to try to determine what is true, has no bearing on that fact.

    I seek the truth because I value it, not because anyone or anything is denying me the choice to do otherwise; Whether seeking the truth implies seeking a god or gods is another question entirely - as an intellectually honest atheist it is important for me to confirm that gods do not exist, and some degree of 'seeking' is implied by that. I looked in the places that believers told me I should look, and found nothing. I did NOT attempt to use emotions to 'seek god' (despite the advice of believers to do so) , because I am satisfied that that is not a technique that is capable of achieving the objective.

    If someone tells me that it is possible to swim to New Zealand, than I need to give that claim more consideration than if someone tells me that it is possible to walk to New Zealand. One technique has at least some chance of success, despite being very difficult. The other can be discarded as impossible without the need to make an attempt - I don't need to try to walk to NZ to prove that walking is not going to get me there, and for the same reasons, I don't need to try using emotions to determine whether gods are non-fiction in order to know that the attempt would be futile - emotions cannot lead to knowledge, only to belief. And belief without knowledge is valueless. Despite the contrary claims of theists.

    You - bilby and phands - aren't forced to seek the Lord. Stop your histrionics.
    I know. That's why, when you pointed out the bleeding bloody obvious, I felt the need to correct your apparently erroneous interpretation of the thread title. You made it clear that you did not understand (or had chosen not to understand in order to make some silly rhetorical point), and so I chose to correct you. No histrionics were involved in any of my posts.

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