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Thread: Christian Author Who Says Atheists “Accidentally Prove God Exists” Is All Wrong

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    Veteran Member phands's Avatar
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    Christian Author Who Says Atheists “Accidentally Prove God Exists” Is All Wrong

    Of course he's all wrong...that is self-evident. it's how egregiously he's wrong that is noteworthy....

    A number of Christian websites are promoting a video by anti-gay Christian apologist Frank Turek all about the six ways in which atheists “accidentally prove God exists.” You’re not going to believe this… but he misses the mark.
    Turek, who claimed several years ago that he was fired by the technology company Cisco for his opposition to same-sex marriage in America, has previously tried to explain why God allows evil to happen and why the Bible doesn’t mention dinosaurs. Now, he’s claiming to be able to show that atheists prove that God is realjust by their very existence.
    In his book, “Stealing From God: Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case,” Turek argues that much of the reasoning put forth by those attempting to disprove God is fundamentally contradictory.
    In a new video posted to his Facebook page, Frank addresses the logical framework commonly used by atheists by taking us through a simple acronym: CRIMES. Causality, Reason, Information and Intentionality, Morality, Evil and Science.
    In a short and snappy exposition of each element, Turek highlights the major flaws in atheist reasoning.
    Faithwire, the Christian Broadcasting Network, and others may be willing to take Turek’s claims as gospel (pun absolutely intended), but let’s submit them to a bit of old-fashioned skepticism.
    Here are his six reasons, along with my responses:
    Go read the responses at http://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2...-is-all-wrong/
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” Terry Pratchett

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    http://www.debunking-christianity.com/search?q=turek

    John Loftus's Debunking Christianity Blog has done an extensive multi-part critique of Turek's book. It is basically pre-suppositionalist dreck.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    http://www.debunking-christianity.com/search?q=turek

    John Loftus' Blog has done an extensive multipart critique of Turek's book. It is pre-suppositionalist dreck.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Christians always seem desperate to shore up their faith.

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    Causality. Theists cannot distinguish between anthropomorphic projections and causes. Therefore they cannot determine anything about anything, but just illustrate the pattern-seeking behaviors of their own minds.

    Reason. Theists cannot reason worth a shit. Anyone that defers reasoning to a greater being than themselves has given up on it.

    Information. If information needs to be created by a mind, then that explains how theists create so little of it. Their intentions tend to make it misinformation. So whatever bit of mind they've got, it's not connected to any divine reason.

    Morality. Theists have fucked each other over quite a lot through history regarding their objective morals.

    Evil. Theists cannot understand the argument; the word "evil" confuses them. Atheists do not argue that a metaphysical made-by-God evil disproves God. It's subjective suffering that disproves there's a benevolent God.

    Science. Theists expect chaos if a mind doesn't direct everything. They imagine against the evidence that 'matter can't do it'. It's the mind projection fallacy again, among a few other cognitive biases.

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    CRIIMES. That's snappy.

    Causality, Reason, Information, Intentionality, Morality, Evil and Science.

    Morality and Information are the two most problematic for atheism/atheology.

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    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    http://www.debunking-christianity.com/search?q=turek

    John Loftus' Blog has done an extensive multipart critique of Turek's book. It is pre-suppositionalist dreck.
    Presuppers are an interesting group. I remember years ago getting into a discussion with a couple. Their schtick was "Existence exists." The word "Existence" had become this thing they objectified as something corporeal. It was really corny, a glimpse into our primeval past. Yes, they are real fruits.

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    Industrial Grade Linguist Copernicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    CRIIMES. That's snappy.

    Causality, Reason, Information, Intentionality, Morality, Evil and Science.
    The snappy acronym is "CRIMES", not "CRIIMES". He combines "Information and Intentionality" into one letter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Morality and Information are the two most problematic for atheism/atheology.
    The only thing missing here is some explanation of why you believe that. Authoritarian-based moralities are arbitrarily based in some authority, which is espoused by clergy or the believer's private interpretation of holy doctrine. Theism implies no consistent morality. That's why some believers can murder and torture people with the blessing of their gods, whereas such acts are condemned by the gods of others. And it is easy to explain intentionality as a natural evolutionary development in embodied brains. No divine intervention needed for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    The only thing missing here is some explanation of why you believe
    that
    You want me to rehash Frank Turek's claims here?
    There's a link in the Op.
    I'll happily argue the case but there won't be anything you haven't heard before.

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    I guess we are guilty of CRIMES against theism. Science is evil, I heard that before.

    I had a conversation with a new grad in engineering from the UW. He said he had been approached on campus by anti science Christians who said he needed to abandon engineering.

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