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Thread: The Bible is holy and from god. Oh, and also you have to understand the times in which it was written. WUT?

  1. Top | #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Punish the rapist and ignore the plight of the victim?
    The victim would have found it hard to marry - that meant poverty.
    Think of it as a shotgun wedding.
    Nobody is saying it was a win win win, happily ever after scenario.
    Ya, they were kind of inbetween a rock and hard place there. It's too bad there wasn't anybody who could give divine commands like "Don't look down on marriage to rape victims" or something like that. Maybe put it into some type of book.

  2. Top | #22
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    I said...the Israelite biblical punishment of male sex crimes against women was much harsher than neighboring societies. Considered from a secular point of view, a Hebrew woman was much safer than her counterparts in other patriarchal male-dominated societies.

    God takes marriage seriously.

    What does post-modern, secular, feminist society do?
    It liberates men! It gave men guilt-free sex. Men can walk away from marriage anytime they want. Men can coerce women into having an abortion.

  3. Top | #23
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I said...the Israelite biblical punishment of male sex crimes against women was much harsher than neighboring societies. Considered from a secular point of view, a Hebrew woman was much safer than her counterparts in other patriarchal male-dominated societies.
    Meh.. Sources? I think this is bullshit. I think there was no difference, right across the ancient world. Keep in mind that sexual moralities in the ancient world were often hypocritical. These rules only applied to poor people. In 500 AD came the first papal bull to close all those brothels attached to each Christian church, used to pay for upkeep of the churches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    God takes marriage seriously.

    What does post-modern, secular, feminist society do?
    It liberates men! It gave men guilt-free sex.
    What's the problem with guilt-free sex? If it's consensual sex, then what's the problem? You're such a string of bizarre statements.

    Also.. this is a deflection away from your idea that rape can be justified if they get married.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Men can walk away from marriage anytime they want.
    So can women. The good thing about this system is that it forces both parties in the relationship to treat each other with respect. Or they'll lose the other. It's a great practical lesson of life. Forcing people to stay together is not healthy. Not for the people in it, nor society, nor their children.

    I'm a big believer in letting people take responsibility for their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Men can coerce women into having an abortion.
    Again.... sources? I think you made this up

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    Or, maybe since its god, he could say "Hey, don't blame the woman for being raped."

    God is not a slave to human conventions. God could literally command them to do anything he wanted, and they would have had to obey.

    He ordered raped women to be forced to marry their rapists.

    Or this was made up by people who weren't interested in being just or kind.

  5. Top | #25
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    And why not have rape be the leading cause of penis cancer? It seems that if God wanted to be against rape, he could have made it an easily solvable problem with little to no effort whatsoever.

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    These two things are incompatible and also frequently used by christians who don’t see the contradiction.

    Talking today with a Christian trying to justify the cruelty of having to marry your rapist - so that he can rape you for the rest of your life. But! But! You have to understand the times, she was now an outcast and he had to take care of her to keep her alive!

    Dude. So maybe the bible should say, “if you rape, you have to pay for her needs for the rest of her life, and you have to stay away from her, oh and also, all you other people, don’t be dicks to her, it’s not her fault.”

    But apparently the god of the times couldn’t manage that kind of foresight.


    Also it admits that the god of the times had no control over the mores of the times. Sad!

    That rule benefitted rape victims and the deterrent prevented potential rapes.

    You didn't read anything I wrote, did you.

    Nobody would ever marry a woman who claimed to have been raped. So what else was she to do?
    Taht wasn't the point of my post. The point of the question was, what could your god do about it?

    It could have written a bible that instructs people NOT to harm the women.
    And, as I said, pay for her upkeep without her having to get raped again and again.

    For the love of reason, you seem to be declaring that a woman is better off getting raped every day than not getting married.
    WTF?



    And what better way to punish a rapist than to make them pay lifelong alimony/maintenance and a dowry.
    And the ability to continue raping her every night for the rest of her life, right? Oh, the terrible punishment.

    To her.



    And let's not forget..."only the man who lay with her shall die. You shall do nothing to the young woman; the young woman has not committed an offense punishable by death"

    I think you've taken that out of context. Because if that was true, why should he be forced to marry her if he's supposed to die.
    You seem to have that kind of mixed up.



    Seems they took #MeToo allegations a lot more seriously back then. So yeah, you gotta understand the time it was written.
    Only if you think there's nothing wrong with the rape going on and on for the rest of her life.
    Wow.
    That's pretty barbaric of you. Just ~oh well! Rape today, rape tomorrow, rape every day! She won't mind! It's better than being shunned, amirite?

    That's depraved.

    And if you had a god, he could have fixed it by telling people:
    1. don't rape.
    2. If you rape, you have to pay her upkeep the rest of her life and you can't go near her ever again.
    3. If someone is raped, they are not to be shunned, they are to be welcomed and pampered and loved
    4. and protected from ever getting raped again.


    But you don't have a god
    not with any power or skills anyway,
    So you don't have that.
    Secular society does a better job of that.

  7. Top | #27
    Veteran Member braces_for_impact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    These two things are incompatible and also frequently used by christians who don’t see the contradiction.

    Talking today with a Christian trying to justify the cruelty of having to marry your rapist - so that he can rape you for the rest of your life. But! But! You have to understand the times, she was now an outcast and he had to take care of her to keep her alive!

    Dude. So maybe the bible should say, “if you rape, you have to pay for her needs for the rest of her life, and you have to stay away from her, oh and also, all you other people, don’t be dicks to her, it’s not her fault.”

    But apparently the god of the times couldn’t manage that kind of foresight.

    Also it admits that the god of the times had no control over the mores of the times. Sad!

    That rule benefitted rape victims and the deterrent prevented potential rapes.

    Nobody would ever marry a woman who claimed to have been raped. So what else was she to do?

    And what better way to punish a rapist than to make them pay lifelong alimony/maintenance and a dowry.

    And let's not forget..."only the man who lay with her shall die. You shall do nothing to the young woman; the young woman has not committed an offense punishable by death"

    Seems they took #MeToo allegations a lot more seriously back then. So yeah, you gotta understand the time it was written.
    What does it feel like to continuously have to make excuse after excuse to desperately cling to this fiction? Does it ever get to you? Do you ever ask yourself how you ended up slinging increasingly bazaar and incoherent concepts just to hold onto what you want so desperately to be true? When you are constantly trying to handwave and explain things away, are you ever overwhelmed just by sheer number of square pegs you try to fit into round holes after a while? Does it ever build up to a point where you stop and ask yourself questions like this?

    Behold the power of faith.

    I used to watch "Atheist Experience" in my younger atheist days, not so much anymore, but there are times where this forum reminds me very much of a caller that is going to be the 3,467th Christian to FINALLY explain things right, only to end up looking foolish and spouting forth the most incredible set of error-ridden conspiracies and suppositions to ever hit the airwaves. One of those episodes where even other Christians are facepalming and everyone knows the caller is in WAY over their head, except, of course, the caller and their righteous indignation.
    I take all knowledge to be my province.
    -Sir Francis Bacon

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    These two things are incompatible and also frequently used by christians who don’t see the contradiction.

    Talking today with a Christian trying to justify the cruelty of having to marry your rapist - so that he can rape you for the rest of your life. But! But! You have to understand the times, she was now an outcast and he had to take care of her to keep her alive!

    Dude. So maybe the bible should say, “if you rape, you have to pay for her needs for the rest of her life, and you have to stay away from her, oh and also, all you other people, don’t be dicks to her, it’s not her fault.”

    But apparently the god of the times couldn’t manage that kind of foresight.

    Also it admits that the god of the times had no control over the mores of the times. Sad!

    That rule benefitted rape victims and the deterrent prevented potential rapes.
    So you are saying that women who were raped should be considered fortunate, because they had just won the lottery and snared a husband who had to support them for life. An economic windfall not to be taken lightly.

    This is so fucked up that there is nothing I could say that would emphasize the absurdity of your position. Do you even think before you post shit like this?

    Nobody would ever marry a woman who claimed to have been raped. So what else was she to do?
    God couldn't have sent her a cart full of gold so she could live her life independently and with dignity? God couldn't have stepped in and stopped the rape from happening? Why does Biblegod support the free will of the rapist but not the victim?

    Its also really weird that God made the time to ban wearing mixed fabrics and eating shellfish, but he couldn't add a commandment saying "you shall not rape a woman"? Or if a woman is raped, this should not be held against her as a mark of shame? Talk about fucked up priorities.


    And what better way to punish a rapist than to make them pay lifelong alimony/maintenance and a dowry.
    How about decreeing that a rapist would have his genitalia cut off so he couldn't do it again? Instead, Biblegod made sure that the rape victim would be forced to marry her rapist so he could continue to rape her for the rest of her life.

    You really don't see any of this being fucked up?

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I said...the Israelite biblical punishment of male sex crimes against women was much harsher than neighboring societies. Considered from a secular point of view, a Hebrew woman was much safer than her counterparts in other patriarchal male-dominated societies.
    Source?

    God takes marriage seriously.
    Which would explain why he condemns a rape victim to spending the rest of her life with her rapist. Yup, god is serious about marriage.

    What does post-modern, secular, feminist society do?
    It liberates men! It gave men guilt-free sex.
    What's wrong with guilt free sex? And women have the same access to guilt-free sex that men do. In fact, it is probably easier for a woman to get guilt-free sex than a man in many societies. Men will usually have sex with anyone with a vagina, while women tend to be more discerning.


    Men can walk away from marriage anytime they want.
    So can women. At least in most western countries they can. Shithole countries ruled by religious dictators, probably not so much. So what does that tell you about religion?

    Men can coerce women into having an abortion.
    Possibly. But much less likely in western countries that are not subject to the tyranny of religious laws, and women are treated as equal under the law. Having an abortion should be the woman's decision. Its her body, and she should be responsible for the decision.

  10. Top | #30
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by atrib View Post

    What does post-modern, secular, feminist society do?
    It liberates men! It gave men guilt-free sex.
    What's wrong with guilt free sex?
    And therein lies the sickness of Christianity. He sees the "guilt-free sex" enabled by the modern world - birth control, no stonings, no shame as BAD, while he sees a woman condemned to be raped for the rest of her life within the bounds of marriage as GOOD.

    Is there anything at all more barbaric in the world?

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