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Thread: Noah and the flood

  1. Top | #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    I have to shine the spotlight on your dishonesty whenever I can.
    It’s not dishonesty to say you don’t know.
    But it is most certainly dishonest (bad faith) to accuse someone of dishonesty then expecti them to continue the discussion as if you have some (fake) intention of taking them at their word.

  2. Top | #22
    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    I would take you at your word if you tell me when you believed it happened. I wouldn't necessarily agree that it happened then, but I would accept it as an honest guess. I would attempt to disprove it. If you consider that to be bad faith, then you really need to reexamine your beliefs.

    But there is nothing wrong with suspecting someone who makes a claim and then refuses to provide any details. That is normal.

    It is also normal to have at least an idea of when something happened, if you think that it did happen. I can think of nothing that I think happened, that I couldn't at least provide some vague notion of when it happened. Do I know exactly when the Big Bang happened? Certainly not. Could I provide you with the ballpark figure estimated by scientists? Yes. Do I remember the exact dates that the T'ang Dynasty was founded and ended? No. But I know which dynasties preceded and followed it, and which time period in Europe it was contemporary with.

    Having a notion of when an event happened is fundamental. To reject this idea, as you do by stating you have 'no opinion' as to when it happened, is ludicrous. Events have causes and effects. To be indifferent to when it may have happened is to reject the reality of the event and its causes and effects. Events are linked together by these causes and effects, producing a timeline. By disconnecting these events from the timeline, you are essentially admitting they are mythological.

    I think you know that the flood didn't happen, and that the tower didn't happen. I think that because you reject any attempt to put them on the timeline, where their causes and effects could be linked to (or more likely, would contradict) known history. You make these claims, not because you think they actually happened, but because your religion requires it of you, and you value that more than you value a strict commitment to the truth.

  3. Top | #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    If all surface life was killed in the flood leaving only Noah and company, then every huann group existing today must have come from Noah.
    Blacks, whites, asians and so on.
    Must not forget Noah's sons' wives.
    Further in the time scale from the alleged time of the flood to the rise of advanced cultures like Egypt and China children would have to be changing generation by generation. It would have to be observable by parents.
    It's even worse with non-human animals if we subscribe to AiG's "a kind is roughly a family except for Hominidae" model. For example, all the 36 species of the "dog kind" (i.e. family Canidae) must have evolved rapidly from a single breeding pair of antediluvian dog.

    How did diversity in humans come about starting with Adam and Eve followed by the Noah bottleneck?
    Rapid evolution. Seriously.

    Hey wife, how come baby has slanted eyes?
    One of Noah's sons' wives must have been Chinese, obviously.

  4. Top | #24
    Zen Hedonist Jobar's Avatar
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    Laughing at those who believe in a literal Flood and Ark has been popular for quite a while.






    But my favorite one is long gone from the internet. Back in the golden days of Internet Infidels, there was the 'Photoshop' thread. One of the images posted there was of a cartoon ark in bright sunshine, full of smiling animals; but under the surface of the water, dimly seen, was an image of a pit full of bodies, originally taken at one of the Nazi extermination camps.

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobar View Post
    But my favorite one is long gone from the internet. Back in the golden days of Internet Infidels, there was the 'Photoshop' thread. One of the images posted there was of a cartoon ark in bright sunshine, full of smiling animals; but under the surface of the water, dimly seen, was an image of a pit full of bodies, originally taken at one of the Nazi extermination camps.
    But the Holy Book of Genocide makes that look like a pool party.

  6. Top | #26
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    That is another biblical time line problem, denizens of the oceans.

    If humans coexisted with dinos and other prehumen sea creatures it would be pretty risking venturing out fishing. From the archeological and fossil evidence humans were more likely to be prey than hunters and fishers.

  7. Top | #27
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Noah’s family (all heterosexuals BTW) .
    I dunno if that's true.

    Noah got really, really upset that Ham saw him in the tent. Really lost his shit, not out of embarrassment at being sloppy drunk from day drinking, but from his son seeing him naked.
    Cursed, NOT the guy that saw him naked, but Ham's son. Ham's fourth son, to be exact.

    I always found that suspicious. Not the guy that saw his nakedidity, or the first three sons...

    I wonder if Ham was gay? Or at least bi?

    Because Noah's reaction reminds me a LOT of the way many modern sailors behave when you suggest that at least one in every ten men on the crew are probably gay, so it's a mathematical certainty that a gay man has seen them naked in the shower. For all that they joke about being gay, the possibility makes them lose their shit.

    And if he was gay, that would explain Noah cursing his grandson. Because Noah had three sons, Ham had four. Which would make him, by the standards of many cultures, more manly than Noah. So the Curse of Ham would be jealousy on Noah's part, with extra anger for the manliness of the gay son.

  8. Top | #28
    Veteran Member phands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Noah’s family (all heterosexuals BTW) .
    To quote the fucktard known as Ken Ham - another true xtian - "were you there"? The answer, of course, is no...because noah never existed, the flood is bilge.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” Terry Pratchett

  9. Top | #29
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phands View Post
    And why bother to debate the never-happened with idiots who cite abject guff like what LIRC regurgitated?
    If nothing else, might get an idea for a bible fanfic.

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Noah’s family (all heterosexuals BTW) spread out and went their separate ways continuing on to live God’s blessing to be fruitful and populate the Earth. And as descendants of Adam, they likely shared his skin pigmentation.
    Adam (אדם) literally means "red", and there is an etymological connection between adam and adamah, adamah designating "red clay" or "red ground" in a non-theological context
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamah

    This initial skin pigmentation would be a useful starting point for subsequent variation in skin colour as Ham, Shem and Japheths descendents spread out around the world living in different climates.
    This is nonsense. A population of a handful of individuals would not been able to populate the different parts of the world in a matter of a few hundred years, or evolve the very diverse characteristics and cultures we observe across our species today. Even if they managed that using magic, the effects of this bottleneck would have been obvious in our genes. And I'm not even going to get into all the reasons why the Noah flood story is considered impossible.

    Most Christians are not looking for answers when they read the Bible, they are simply reinforcing their belief in a mythical god invented by our Bronze Age ancestors. So reason and skeptical thinking don't come into play; you simply believe what you read. Free your mind, and stop being a slave to the superstitions of our ancestors. If you believe your god gave you a brain, you owe him at least the courtesy of using it once in a while.

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