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Thread: My experiences that suggest an intelligent force exists

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    My experiences that suggest an intelligent force exists

    Hi this is about experiences I had as an atheist/agnostic that made me think that there could be an intelligent force in the universe - maybe even from the future a bit like Interstellar? Maybe I'll become a liberal Christian one day. (very long post...)

    From March 2018:
    From my blog:
    Several weeks later I was home alone and decided that it was game over for me. I connected some tubing up to my car’s exhaust pipe and sat in the driver’s seat. Feeling restless I tried breathing in from the tube directly. I decided to put the radio on. Playing on the radio was Ben Lee’s “Gamble Everything For Love”. After that was the New Radical’s song “You Get What You Give”.
    …….But when the night is falling
    And you cannot find the light (light)
    If you feel your dream is dying
    Hold tight
    You've got the music in you
    You've got the music in you
    One dance left
    This world is gonna pull through
    Don't give up
    You've got a reason to live
    Can't forget you only get what you give

    I was starting to feel disorientated and didn’t feel very well and I decided to give life another chance. I staggered out of the car. A couple of days later I casually mentioned to my psychiatrist what I had done and was admitted into the mental ward of a hospital for the third time.
    Anyway, it happened again
    My Maundy Thursday miracle

    Often when weird things in my life have happened I have actively embraced them but this time I am suspicious.

    Last Friday my sister mentioned a dream she had a while ago that meant that I would become a Christian sometime. She also quoted John 6:44a – “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them….” A day later she asked if anything had happened. I said no. I remembered that that quote was in the song “I am the bread of life”. During the past week I had also listened to a Christian song called “The servant song” on Youtube. I almost never watch Christian music videos in the past few years.

    Anyway I went to a church Maundy Thursday dinner with my wife and parents. The first song was “The servant song”. I thought that was quite amazing. Then I thought about the “I am the bread of life” song. I thought it would be impossible for that song to play. There was a different song and then I thought that maybe it is bad to put God to the test. Then there was a video about the last supper and in it Jesus said "I am the bread of life" even though it was in John 6, well before the last supper.

    I ended up having communion even though I hadn’t done it in more than 10 years. Then the third and final song was “I am the bread of life”! The lyrics were different though – originally it was “...unless the father draws him...” but in that song it is “unless the father beckons”. It also said “I will raise you up” instead of “I will raise him up”.

    Afterwards I talked to the pastor. I told him about the songs and said it was unusual because I don’t really believe in God. I asked him about the story of Samuel and how Eli got him to say “Speak, LORD, for your servant is listening”

    Note: I mentioned that the "I am the bread of life" song had different lyrics in the dinner. Well "the servant song" had the normal lyrics but the version I watched on youtube a few days ago had different lyrics. It was the song's writer singing "brother, sister, let me serve you" instead of "brother let me be your servant". So it isn't sexist. In a similar way, changing "I will raise him up" to "I will raise you up" removes sexist language.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL3vStmoMDw
    From my sister:
    I had a dream where I was talking to a pastor at church, who shared an encounter he had where he saw Jesus talking to the Father in heaven. Jesus was asking the Heavenly Father when He is going to give [excreationist] to Him.

    There was a sense of such longing – that Jesus was lovingly longing for relationship with [excreationist], having foreknowledge that it was the will of the Father for [excreationist] to come to Him, He was longing for the time [excreationist] would come to Him!

    When I woke up from this dream, Jesus spoke to me about [excreationist], saying, “I desire oneness with him!” I sensed the loving desire He has for [excreationist].

    Holy Spirit reminded me of how Jesus said in John 6:44 -

    “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    So Jesus was lovingly waiting with such longing for the Father to draw [excreationist] to Him, that [excreationist] might become one with Jesus and the Father (John 17:20-23).
    This is the first time I've ever said to myself "it would be impossible if that specific song were to play". Also it is the first time my sister had told me about a dream she had about me becoming a Christian. As far as Apophenia goes, I have schizoaffective disorder and I have experienced that kind of thing. But some Christians I know tell me that it definitely wasn't a coincidence. I think the chances of that song being the third and final song would be at least dozens to one (maybe hundreds to one). Also like I said, this is the first time I've had communion in at least 10 years - maybe 15 years. Though I've been going to church a lot recently but I don't have it since I don't really believe in God. And that "I am the bread of life" song only played AFTER I had communion and had completely assumed that it wouldn't play (since the second song was different) The last song that played has the same lyrics that my sister talked to me about ("No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.") [well the version that played was a non-sexist version that I'd never heard before]
    About the intelligent force in the universe idea:
    I don't know - it is mysterious and often hard to know if it really even exists. BTW the message from the future in "Interstellar" was very intelligent though. BTW this video from "Quantum Gravity Research" I watched a few months ago is interesting how it talks about the future you influencing the past you:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ztlIAYTCU
    There is also an issue of New Scientist magazine from February that has a cover story about the future influencing the past: it says it is like a Sudoku game and that quantum physics isn't actually random if the future is involved.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article...t-happens-now/
    BTW there are 7 Lutheran song books with modern songs:

    1980 All Together Now
    1984 All Together Again
    1991 All Together Everybody
    1996 All Together OK
    2001 All Together Whatever
    2007 All Together For Good
    2014 All Together All Right

    "The bread of life" and "The servant song" are from the same book - All Together Again
    http://www.robinmann.com.au/Songs-Al...n-pg23735.html
    They are songs 167 and 191.

    The bread of life is from 1964
    http://www.godsongs.net/2017/04/i-am...-last-day.html

    The servant song is from about 1977
    http://www.godsongs.net/2015/12/serv...serve-you.html
    From Futurama - Godfellas: (season 3 episode 20)
    http://www.imsdb.com/transcripts/Fut...Godfellas.html
    GOD
    Bender, being God isn't easy, if you
    do too much, people get dependent. And
    if you do nothing, they lose hope. You
    have to use a light touch, like a safecracker
    or a pickpocket.


    BENDER
    Or a guy who burns down the bar for
    the insurance money.


    GOD
    Yes, if you make it look like an electrical
    thing. When you do things right, people
    won't be sure you've done anything at
    all.
    After talking about the dream she wrote:
    Keep sharing what God is doing and any questions,
    concerns, prayer requests or curiosities you might have. I
    am always here for you! How much more Jesus!!!
    I love you and Jesus and your Heavenly Father love you so
    ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    oooooooooo much!!! There wouldnt be enough space in this
    email if I emphasised how much! Truth is, I cant even fathom
    it, cos its more than all the sands on the sea shore if you
    were to count them!! So great is His love for YOU!!!
    God bless you bountifully,
    [sister 1] and Jesus, Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxx........to be continued.......FOREVER!!!
    So she was talking about the Father loving me a lot - "beyond all measure".
    My other sister has written two books about the incredibly deep love of God the Father. The blurb begins "No one on this earth will ever fully grasp just how deep and rich the heart of the Father is towards them."

    So the second song, which I thought was quite insignificant has some significance too.

    The second song from the Maundy Thursday dinner, "How Deep the Father's Love For Us" played at the church I normally go to. I remembered part of the song I was going to mention but had forgotten - "Ashamed I hear my mocking voice Call out among the scoffers". This has been true of me to some degree.
    - - - Updated - - -

    See also:
    "Agnosticism and Intelligent Design"
    https://talkfreethought.org/showthre...lligent-Design

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Hi excreationist. You have my sincere sympathies for your struggles along the mortal coil.

    Unfortunately, I don't think you'll get much in the way of support here for the suggestions about an intelligent force or for intelligent design.

    I myself would not diss them on the grounds that they are idiotic, just that they are wishful thinking. If they help you in some way and you do not go about imposing them on others (which I'm guessing you don't) then good luck to you.

    Just a heads up.

    Though if you first came here 18 years ago (as it seems you did) you may already be clued in.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Besides the possibility that the future is influencing the past, there is the possibility that we're in a simulated reality. Elon Musk has said there is a billions to one chance that we are NOT in a simulation. I don't think the future could influence the past in a simulation unless it is going back and forth between the present and the future?
    Parts of the simulation/reality loop could be overriding normal chance and cause things like my experiences and evolution/abiogenesis.

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    If we are in a simulation, why are we aware of the possibility that we are in a simulation? What is the purpose of a simulation where the occupants are aware of this fact? Wouldn't their awareness muck up whatever the simulation was set up to test?

    Also, if you have been following the news lately, it is plenty clear that Elon Musk is insane. Why would you invoke him as an authority?

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    Super Moderator
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    It sounds like you really want to believe and feel that religion will fill a hole that you find in your life without it.

    That's actually a really good reason to have faith. If you feel that these aren't just our human pattern matching abilities which try to structure order out of randomness and it's actually some dude talking to you in order to bring you back into the fold because he knows that this is what you need from him right now, then go with that.

    A person's religion or lack thereof is the end result of their search for the truth and what it is that they find to be credible. If you find it credible that God would reach out to you at a low point in your life to let you know that he's there and call you back to your faith, then answer that call.

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    My own experience of life also suggests that an intelligent force exists. And I'm pretty sure we nearly all share the same experience in this respect. It's in fact pretty obvious. So, yeah, there's an intelligent force. So?
    EB

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    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    My own experience of life also suggests that an intelligent force exists. And I'm pretty sure we nearly all share the same experience in this respect. It's in fact pretty obvious. So, yeah, there's an intelligent force. So?
    EB
    So - the hijacked set of ancient pagan beliefs that were crafted (post-Constantine) into an even more sophisticated tool of repression and control of the populace, describes a repository of that intelligent force: The Christian God. Which must certainly, definitely, beyond all question, BE that intelligent force.
    If you don't see how that necessarily follows, you need more brainwashing!

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    If we are in a simulation, why are we aware of the possibility that we are in a simulation? What is the purpose of a simulation where the occupants are aware of this fact? Wouldn't their awareness muck up whatever the simulation was set up to test?
    The point of a simulated reality is not to make people believe they're real. That would be really idiotic. Since simulated people are not real to begin with, what would be the point of that? Snigger?

    The point of a simulation is anybody's guess. They're perhaps trying to work out what would work in the long run, perhaps to solve their own problems. So, they run different simulations and maybe they wanted to see what happens when people get convinced they are in a simulation. Maybe that's precisely what they think so they're trying to figure out if that's really possible. Who know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    Also, if you have been following the news lately, it is plenty clear that Elon Musk is insane. Why would you invoke him as an authority?
    Insane? No. He has obviously serious issues with various substances. That's not insanity.

    I certainly wouldn't trust my life with this guy but if he was insane we would need to worry given his wealth, influence, and power. Surely, somebody must have him under surveillance, just in case.
    EB

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    Veteran Member phands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    And I'm pretty sure we nearly all share the same experience in this respect.

    Utter nonsense, and you cannot possibly speak for even a tiny fraction of "we".....unless you mean that "we" is those who are superstitious fools who you know.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” Terry Pratchett

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    syn·chro·nic·i·ty
    ˌsiNGkrəˈnisədē/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the simultaneous occurrence of events that appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection.

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