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Thread: Will it be Rand vs Jeb in 2016?

  1. Top | #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    That is a misconception about the Constitution. It goes back to the days when the Electoral College actually selected the President and Vice-president, instead of representing the popular vote of their state. The Vice-president was the second place candidate. The rule stated that an elector could not vote for two candidates from his own state. In today's system, where the ticket is a matched pair, it is irrelevant.

    Chavez was a union organizer. The only way his union could succeed was if the labor pool could be restricted. Opposing the guest worker program was an economic decision. Big business wants immigrant labor, especially agricultural labor. This is one of the landmines of GOP campaigning. The candidate who opposes immigration looses big business support and the one who calls for immigration reform loses the Tea Party. This is one of the more humorous aspects of Tea Party politics. The TP was created by the Koch brothers as an astroturf anti-tax party, but was quickly co-opted by the anti-immigration faction. The Tea Party could cost the Kochs billions of dollars if their policies make it into law and drive up wages.

    The first rule of Vice-presidential selection is, "Do no harm." There is always some justification about what the candidate brings to the ticket, but in reality, they want someone who will not become a liability.

    Whether Kennedy was helped or hurt by his Catholicism is hard to say. Either way, he won. I believe it was actually a non-issue, about which only political professionals really cared. Kennedy was the perfect candidate for the time. He was young, handsome, eloquent, and a war hero at a time when the people of WW2 were now in charge. It was his to lose. He ran a good campaign and avoided things like Nixon's Checkers speech. Some genius coined the question, "Would you buy a used car from this man?" about Nixon, which shows how superficial deciding factors can be. Kennedy was the cool kid.

    They changed the rule regarding the selection of the VP, it was the eleventh amendment I believe, but I'm pretty sure that amendment did not change the requirement that the president and VP come from different states.

    The first rule of "do no harm" has been broken a few times including, I would suggest, by the current occupant.

    Nixon was a WW II generation man the same as Kennedy so the passing of the wand would have occurred regardless of who won.

    We look at Kennedy's speeches today and admire the eloquence. But those were speeches he made as president. He wasn't nearly as eloquent on the campaign trail. I remember him as an attack dog. Kennedy was running behind the Democratic ticket so he had to bring Nixon down. Nixon ran the more gentlemanly campaign. He was trying to appear to be above partisanship.

    In a race as close as 1960, you can look at any number of factors and say that that is why Nixon lost. In a normal election that usually have a 5 point spread or so, there are many factors that wouldn't have made a difference.

  2. Top | #22
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boneyard bill View Post
    They changed the rule regarding the selection of the VP, it was the eleventh amendment I believe, but I'm pretty sure that amendment did not change the requirement that the president and VP come from different states.

    The first rule of "do no harm" has been broken a few times including, I would suggest, by the current occupant.

    Nixon was a WW II generation man the same as Kennedy so the passing of the wand would have occurred regardless of who won.

    We look at Kennedy's speeches today and admire the eloquence. But those were speeches he made as president. He wasn't nearly as eloquent on the campaign trail. I remember him as an attack dog. Kennedy was running behind the Democratic ticket so he had to bring Nixon down. Nixon ran the more gentlemanly campaign. He was trying to appear to be above partisanship.

    In a race as close as 1960, you can look at any number of factors and say that that is why Nixon lost. In a normal election that usually have a 5 point spread or so, there are many factors that wouldn't have made a difference.
    The VP Constitutional question has had a lot of discussion. A quick google search will find a lot of articles which state the facts.

    The "Do no harm" rule applies to the campaign. Recent history shows how important this rule is. Once elected, the President is well insulated from whatever the Vice-President does.

    Nixon's war career was not distinguished by a heroic shipwreck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbjffkZgVi0

    The movie PT-109 came out in 1963, but the incident had already been dramatized for television in 1957.

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    An elector may not vote for presidential and vice-presidential candidates who both inhabit the elector's state, at least one of them must be an inhabitant of another state.
    Twelfth Amendment

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