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Thread: Video essay about Columbus, bad but not pure evil?

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    Nobody really cares about the level of evilness of Columbus.

    He had no soul to judge.

    What he brought was genocide.

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    Contributor Trausti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Nobody really cares about the level of evilness of Columbus.

    He had no soul to judge.

    What he brought was genocide.
    'Cause before Columbus came, Amerindians had a monolithic culture which promoted peace and understanding. They eschewed violence. Damn Columbus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Nobody really cares about the level of evilness of Columbus.

    He had no soul to judge.

    What he brought was genocide.
    'Cause before Columbus came, Amerindians had a monolithic culture which promoted peace and understanding. They eschewed violence. Damn Columbus.
    Before Columbus and what followed shortly were millions more alive and many less in slavery.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Taken in context, Columbus was probably like any other man, only more so.

    Also taken in context, the greatest mistake the Native Americans made was letting any European return to Europe alive.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Taken in context, Columbus was probably like any other man, only more so.

    Also taken in context, the greatest mistake the Native Americans made was letting any European return to Europe alive.
    They did (sensibly) burn Columbus' first colony to the ground when they realized it was the source of the plague that was killing everyone on Hispaniola. But it was too late.

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    Surprisingly, the video that Repoman posted is really good. I mean, the you-tuber who made the video actually makes a lot of really good videos. It is only surprising to me that repoman was able to identify it as a good video. (sorry, repoman )

    I actually wasn't first linked to this video from the OP. I first watched it when it was linked as a response to a video by Adam Ruins Everything. Adam usually has some good videos but this one seemed suspicious so I investigated further.

    Anyway, Columbus wasn't nearly as evil as many people these days believe he was. Nor was he nearly as stupid as mostly the same people believe he was. I recommend the video too. If you haven't seen it, you should watch it.

    Columbus does get a lot of undeserved hate, and has been the victim of some unfair smear campaigns, but he was no saint either. So the question in the OP is, "Should the statues come down?" Eh? I don't think so. Europe is littered with monuments to rulers and warlords who likely rank a lot higher on any evil scale, but just like Columbus, their contributions to history were and are significant.

    I'm still a little torn on a lot of the confederate statues though. Some should stay. Some should go. eh...

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorq View Post
    Surprisingly, the video that Repoman posted is really good. I mean, the you-tuber who made the video actually makes a lot of really good videos. It is only surprising to me that repoman was able to identify it as a good video. (sorry, repoman )

    I actually wasn't first linked to this video from the OP. I first watched it when it was linked as a response to a video by Adam Ruins Everything. Adam usually has some good videos but this one seemed suspicious so I investigated further.

    Anyway, Columbus wasn't nearly as evil as many people these days believe he was. Nor was he nearly as stupid as mostly the same people believe he was. I recommend the video too. If you haven't seen it, you should watch it.

    Columbus does get a lot of undeserved hate, and has been the victim of some unfair smear campaigns, but he was no saint either. So the question in the OP is, "Should the statues come down?" Eh? I don't think so. Europe is littered with monuments to rulers and warlords who likely rank a lot higher on any evil scale, but just like Columbus, their contributions to history were and are significant.

    I'm still a little torn on a lot of the confederate statues though. Some should stay. Some should go. eh...
    "Unfair smear campaigns"? Two centuries of unearned lionization and public ceremony in his honor?

    I am interested: in terms of choosing who to honor, how much genocide rape theft and slavery is too much genocide rape theft and slavery? Like, at what point do you think someone should be condemned for their actions?

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Taken in context, Columbus was probably like any other man, only more so.

    Also taken in context, the greatest mistake the Native Americans made was letting any European return to Europe alive.
    So genocide is good if white not people of no color subhuman cave beasts are the victim? Columbus brought multiculturism and diversity to the Americas. Aren't they good things?

    Eldarion Lathria

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarion Lathria View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Taken in context, Columbus was probably like any other man, only more so.

    Also taken in context, the greatest mistake the Native Americans made was letting any European return to Europe alive.
    So genocide is good if white not people of no color subhuman cave beasts are the victim? Columbus brought multiculturism and diversity to the Americas. Aren't they good things?

    Eldarion Lathria
    He was all for open borders; which the Woke say is a good thing.

  10. Top | #20
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    I think what is happening here is that apologists set the bar too low by comparing Columbus to emperors' imperial conquests, enslavements, etc. A similar thing is done when trying to put slave owning founding fathers into "historical context" to excuse their slave owning. Somewhere in there, it is completely forgotten that many individuals did not take part, nor never wanted to take part in owning or murdering human beings en masse. Who we ought to chose to honor are those people who stood up against the trend, who did not say "well, everyone else is doing it," and chose to fight against it in some way: the abolitionist movement for example or people who came up with theories on civil government, civil rights, human rights, made legal arguments against slavery or moral arguments against mass murder. Those persons exist and if we don't know it, it's because we focus too much on the wrong people in our cultural learning through these very celebrations under discussion. Celebrate the Magna Carta, John Locke, Harriet Tubman, John Adams. And the reason I bring up the Magna Carta as an example is because the history of fighting for fairness even under despotism and understanding fairness to other human beings is a longer history than Columbus. Let me put this another way. Would you expect Germans to celebrate various military personnel from their Nazi German past while saying "he was not really a terrible person because everyone was doing it," or would you expect them to honor the Germans who stood up to the mass evil of the time such as Hans and Sophie Scholl of the White Rose Society? Sure, it makes sense to learn about Columbus because his existence was impactful, but not to celebrate him.

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