Page 2 of 56 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 554

Thread: Metaphysics is a self delusional anadyne

  1. Top | #11
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    4,400
    Rep Power
    11
    And away we go....

  2. Top | #12
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,010
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,672
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    The OP is the poster's own anodyne.

    And while it is not verbose it's still idiotic.

    What's metaphysical are any theory that you don't actually know it's true. The whole of science falls into that category. The whole of it. The only things you know are your subjective experience, your qualia etc. Not much but that's all you know and so that's the only thing that's not metaphysical.

    That being said, pretty much all metaphysical theories are mostly crap. But I suspect that you should be able to find one or even a few interesting ideas inside each metaphysical theory. Even religion isn't entirely zany. Mostly zany but but not entirely.

    We will need metaphysics as long as we're unable to know what is real.
    EB

  3. Top | #13
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,010
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,672
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    We are subjective minds that seem to have a body at our control. We know the subjective and nothing else.
    By saying 'We are ....' you're giving the 'mind' the status of an entity. I'm saying that the mind is just a dimension (a measurement) The brain is just a mechanical organ. Only our recursive opinion is 'mind' and that's not material or physical

    What I'm really saying, I suppose, is that 'We aren't', not that 'We are'

    Greg
    Say it but you'd need to bring convincing arguments on the table and you're not.

    The only thing we know exists is our mind, or our subjective experience, our qualia etc. All the rest is putative, including other people's own mind. I think therefore I am and since I know I think therefore I know I am, where "I" is just the thinking thing as it appear to itself and only as it appears to itself. All the rest is putative.
    EB

  4. Top | #14
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,010
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,672
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Ok, I read the blog you linked entirely. It's mostly true but not quite. The basic facts are correct but the conclusion is hilariously idiotic. All it shows is that our subjective experience is broadly consistent with a scientific view of the world. But we didn't wait for science to see that because our subjective experience has always been consistent with the objective world as we have always thought of it. That's true today and that was true at the time of Cro-Magnon. We have always known that the mind seems to disappear if you smash the skull and the brain inside. So nothing really new here. Only more details and the more details we get the more we realise, as we did progressively throughout history, that the objective world has no explanatory power to solve the mystery of our subjective experience. The scientific picture we have today is remarkably precise and detailed and yet we still can't see where our subjective experience is explained as such.

    And fundamentally, we understand since Descartes, and to some extent since Plato, that our subjective experience is the only thing we know. The rest is smoke and mirrors. Science has no ontological powers. Science is a description of the spatial and temporal regularities of our subjective experience. It's epistemological. It's basically a picture. What the world looks like from the perspective of our subjective experience. What there is really behind this image is really anybody's guess. Metaphysics. Which explains the term. Physics is the image. The appearance. Metaphysics is about what should exist beyond the image but that we don't know shit about. So what's left that we know is just our personal, private subjective experience. We know it so it's definitely real and it's real as we know it. The quale of redness is really as it appears to us. Pain is as it appears to us. That's not metaphysical. Science is also not metaphysical as long as you understand that it's just an image, a reading on an apparatus. If you start to think of scientific theories as telling us what is the ontology of the world, then you're telling yourself smoke and mirror fables.

    But you sure do as you please.
    EB

  5. Top | #15
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,010
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,672
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    Logic and reasoning is metaphysics.
    Wouldn't logic and reasoning simply be the assembling of patterns?
    Actually, that's an interesting point. Our logical intuitions are just part of our subjective experience. Logic, however, is a metaphysical concept. It's what we imagine exists that would be consistent with our logical intuitions. And then there are methods of logic, which are inevitably metaphysical theories about logic. Most of them are crap, no even consistent with our logical intuitions.

    Our logical intuitions certainly have something to do with patterns. I suspect that there's not much difference between how our visual sense works and how our sense of logic works. And our logical intuitions are just as reliable as our visual percepts. But that's our logical intuitions, not logic itself. Logic is to our logical intuitions as the actual tree must be to our visual percept of the tree, and both what we think of the tree and we think of logic are metaphysical constructs. Nice to have, though, and useful. So, nothing like anodyne.
    EB

  6. Top | #16
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Oregon's westernmost
    Posts
    10,314
    Archived
    18,213
    Total Posts
    28,527
    Rep Power
    52
    So a being who evolves neural architecture for assembling patterns is just not relevant to beings processing patterns then because intuitions covers it. Not very rational.

  7. Top | #17
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Paris, France, EU
    Posts
    6,010
    Archived
    3,662
    Total Posts
    9,672
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    So a being who evolves neural architecture for assembling patterns is just not relevant to beings processing patterns then because intuitions covers it. Not very rational.
    Can't parse that. Gibberish in, gibberish out?
    EB

  8. Top | #18
    Member Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Bunya Mountains
    Posts
    110
    Rep Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    What are you concluding the mind is just a dimension with?

    We are encased minds.

    My mind (me) is forcing my hands to type these words to communicate with another mind.
    No it's not

  9. Top | #19
    Member Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Bunya Mountains
    Posts
    110
    Rep Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post

    We will need metaphysics as long as we're unable to know what is real.
    EB
    But we do know, now, what is real?

  10. Top | #20
    Member Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Bunya Mountains
    Posts
    110
    Rep Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Ok, I read the blog you linked entirely. It's mostly true but not quite. The basic facts are correct but the conclusion is hilariously idiotic.
    Actually I never read it. I just judged the book by it's cover. But you have to remember that the writers of that blog are no where near as clever as you, so you need to cut them a little slack.

Similar Threads

  1. Metaphysics Competition
    By steve_bank in forum Metaphysics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-20-2018, 08:22 PM
  2. Proving metaphysics and philosophies
    By steve_bank in forum Metaphysics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-19-2018, 12:48 AM
  3. Obama's Foreign Policy Legacy - A Delusional Failure
    By maxparrish in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 11-22-2015, 08:49 PM
  4. These poor delusional women don't know they need feminism
    By NobleSavage in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 08-07-2014, 10:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •