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Thread: Metaphysics is a self delusional anadyne

  1. Top | #21
    Member Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Our logical intuitions are just part of our subjective experience. Logic, however, is a metaphysical concept. It's what we imagine exists that would be consistent with our logical intuitions. And then there are methods of logic, which are inevitably metaphysical theories about logic. Most of them are crap, no even consistent with our logical intuitions.
    i'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend. I don't buy into the quasi-superstitious-nursery-rhymes that follow the, 'I think, ergo I am' school-of-platitudes

    There is a physical reality only, and we interact physically with it. These are objective actions, interactions, and reactions with a reality that options only chance and necessity. It's possible to understand this and feel it, touch it, taste it despite our (your?) belief that we can only subjectively and metaphysically experience it second hand, and that we lose understanding by that translation.

    'Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

    Moriarty
    : Crap!



  2. Top | #22
    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Good article. You should read it.

    I largely agree with what it says. Our views on consciousness are lathered with spechul sauce, thus we are prone to self-delusions about it, and there is really no need or basis for that. Sure it's in some ways mysterious, but that's only because our understanding is partial and could be said of many things. In some ways, the issue is boring and unexciting. Consciousness emerges from brain activity and is (merely) 'what human brains do'.

    As for metaphysics generally, it could be replaced with the word physics and a lot of confusion and historical baggage would be avoided.

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Don't agree. A more modern term for the same thing is metanarrative. It answers things like, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What is your place in the world? Why should you accept your station in life? What is worth fighting for? What is the ultimate goal? How does the thing you are doing now contribute to you reaching your ultimate goals in life? What of these goals do I share with others, and how important is it? If you don't answer these questions you'll lack direction in life. You won't be able to get anything done. Often we fall back on default metanarratives. But if you do, you don't really know why you like the stuff you like or why you are doing what you are doing. It's a pretty empty life.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanarrative

    In the ancient world the supernatural and secular were closely linked. Paganism is a very sophisticated type of religion. Paganism works just fine if the gods are 100% metaphors, just to help clarify metanarratives. The term "metaphysics" is a pagan term that's survived into the modern world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Good article. You should read it.

    I largely agree with what it says. Our views on consciousness are lathered with spechul sauce, thus we are prone to self-delusions about it, and there is really no need or basis for that.
    I agree with it too, on faith. Though I haven't read that one I've read others.

    The Philosophy of Physics has become more closely aligned, through continental drift over eons, to Alchemy than it is to the reality presented by Quantum Mechanics. Philosophy can't deal with a discrete Universe. We need an entirely new philosophy and one free of Spinozas and Boethius' and Satres. And everthing ever written by Aristotle and his illegitimate father Plato should be burnt, even letters to their Mums.

  5. Top | #25
    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Good article. You should read it.

    I largely agree with what it says. Our views on consciousness are lathered with spechul sauce, thus we are prone to self-delusions about it, and there is really no need or basis for that.
    I agree with it too, on faith. Though I haven't read that one I've read others.

    The Philosophy of Physics has become more closely aligned, through continental drift over eons, to Alchemy than it is to the reality presented by Quantum Mechanics. Philosophy can't deal with a discrete Universe. We need an entirely new philosophy and one free of Spinozas and Boethius' and Satres. And everthing ever written by Aristotle and his illegitimate father Plato should be burnt, even letters to their Mums.
    Up to a point, yes. But there is theoretical and speculative physics, which is always seeking to go beyond the 'rules' that we understand, and to me that is ok, even if it is in some ways more philosophical than empirical. We should never assume that the physics we know is all there is.

    I'll be honest with you, I'm not even sure what metaphysics meaningfully is. A lot of the time I'm happy with dropping the meta bit. 'Speculative physics' would cover anything I can think of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Don't agree. A more modern term for the same thing is metanarrative. It answers things like, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What is your place in the world? Why should you accept your station in life? What is worth fighting for? What is the ultimate goal? How does the thing you are .................
    Dr Zoidberg,

    Thank you, but your entire post is anthromorphic, which is fine if your only concern is yourself and the rest of the sub-species. You can't apply it to an Ant, or an Aardvark or a Zebra ... so it's strictly limited.

    One physical material reality ... no purpose, no prevision. Ergo: no goals.


  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post

    Up to a point, yes. But there is theoretical and speculative physics, which is always seeking to go beyond the 'rules' that we understand, and to me that is ok, even if it is in some ways philosophical. We should never assume that the physics we know is all there is.
    Of course there is speculation at the beginning of all scientific investigation. I've never thought of that as a philosophy. I would have thought it kinda goes without saying

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    Quote Originally Posted by aupmanyav View Post
    Hi, Grandel! Howdy. How are thing in Bunya Mountains?
    Hi Aup ... all is good with me. Hope the same for you n yours

  9. Top | #29
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Don't agree. A more modern term for the same thing is metanarrative. It answers things like, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What is your place in the world? Why should you accept your station in life? What is worth fighting for? What is the ultimate goal? How does the thing you are .................
    Dr Zoidberg,

    Thank you, but your entire post is anthromorphic, which is fine if your only concern is yourself and the rest of the sub-species. You can't apply it to an Ant, or an Aardvark or a Zebra ... so it's strictly limited.
    Anthromoporphism is to turn other creatures or forces of nature into humans. Letting animals be animals or letting humans be humans isn't anthropomorphism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    One physical material reality ... no purpose, no prevision. Ergo: no goals.
    That's the problem, isn't it. Life doesn't seem to have an intrinsic meaning of life. We need to give that to it. If we don't, we'll be paralysed. If you get anything done in life it's because you have a life's purpose, a goal. You need a meaning of life, a grand over-arching narrative to it. Even if it's a lie. This is the main theme of Nietzsche's critique of Schopenhauer, and arguably the main point of his work. Aka, "affirmative nihilsm".

    Just by making this thread you've proven yourself wrong.

  10. Top | #30
    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post

    Up to a point, yes. But there is theoretical and speculative physics, which is always seeking to go beyond the 'rules' that we understand, and to me that is ok, even if it is in some ways philosophical. We should never assume that the physics we know is all there is.
    Of course there is speculation at the beginning of all scientific investigation. I've never thought of that as a philosophy. I would have thought it kinda goes without saying
    But to be fair it is philosophy. Philosophy is still embedded in science, and even the empirical testing part is applied philosophy.

    What many people refer to as philosophy is 'pure' or 'unapplied' philosophy, and this may be what most people who call themselves philosophers nowadays do. And yes, imo it is of very limited value when it comes to gaining increased knowledge about reality, although fun and interesting, and with a role to play (albeit mostly commentary).

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