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Thread: Metaphysics is a self delusional anadyne

  1. Top | #31
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Don't agree. A more modern term for the same thing is metanarrative. It answers things like, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What is your place in the world? Why should you accept your station in life? What is worth fighting for? What is the ultimate goal? How does the thing you are doing now contribute to you reaching your ultimate goals in life? What of these goals do I share with others, and how important is it? If you don't answer these questions you'll lack direction in life. You won't be able to get anything done. Often we fall back on default metanarratives. But if you do, you don't really know why you like the stuff you like or why you are doing what you are doing. It's a pretty empty life.
    That's no contradiction to what the OP claims. What you suggest we should do could be re-branded as "anodyne" to use the OP's word. And one could enjoy doing metaphysics every minute of his life and still see it as anodyne. Choose your poison sort of.

    Oh, wait, in fact it's clear we can't stop doing it anyway, including this OP's author. Just to insist that there is a physical world out there is a metaphysical claim. The fact that we all believe in it, including me, doesn't change the situation.
    EB

  2. Top | #32
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post

    We will need metaphysics as long as we're unable to know what is real.
    EB
    But we do know, now, what is real?
    And here you go all metaphysical. See? It's very difficult not to do it.

    Some of it we know, or at least I assume you do too, but as for me there's no doubt I know my qualia and that's definitely something real. What I don't know, and I don't think you do either, is whatever there may be outside my subjective experience. That's where the metaphysics starts. And we know so little that we have to be forgiven for going into metaphysical claims. And if you believe in a deterministic physical world you should infer that we are determined to go into metaphysics whenever we do (and not to go into it whenever we don't). Sounds like we don't have that much to talk about about once we accept this premise. You're OP is doing what it seems to say we shouldn't do. Something of a self-contradictory injunction. Food for your thoughts.
    EB

  3. Top | #33
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Ok, I read the blog you linked entirely. It's mostly true but not quite. The basic facts are correct but the conclusion is hilariously idiotic.
    Actually I never read it. I just judged the book by it's cover. But you have to remember that the writers of that blog are no where near as clever as you, so you need to cut them a little slack.
    I don't need to be clever, I only need to be right.

    I'm sure they are cleverer but it's just that reality is what is it and we can't do anything about that I'm sure you will agree and so it's just the case that I'm right and they're wrong, clever as they are. A fact.
    EB

  4. Top | #34
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Our logical intuitions are just part of our subjective experience. Logic, however, is a metaphysical concept. It's what we imagine exists that would be consistent with our logical intuitions. And then there are methods of logic, which are inevitably metaphysical theories about logic. Most of them are crap, no even consistent with our logical intuitions.
    i'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend. I don't buy into the quasi-superstitious-nursery-rhymes that follow the, 'I think, ergo I am' school-of-platitudes

    There is a physical reality only, and we interact physically with it. These are objective actions, interactions, and reactions with a reality that options only chance and necessity. It's possible to understand this and feel it, touch it, taste it despite our (your?) belief that we can only subjectively and metaphysically experience it second hand, and that we lose understanding by that translation.

    'Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

    Moriarty
    : Crap!


    How do you decide that some view is very nearly superstitious and another just right? How do you know that what you take to be your perception of a material world is not something else entirely? All you have is what you take for your perceptions. How could you possibly know that they are actual perception? I'm supposed to be very clever but I don't know how to answer that. Feel free to explain this to me.

    As for me, it's much simpler. I know I think whenever I know I think. Just explain to me how I don't know I think whenever I know I think.
    EB

  5. Top | #35
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Our views on consciousness are lathered with spechul sauce, thus we are prone to self-delusions about it, and there is really no need or basis for that.
    I have to agree with that but it would be nice you provide an example of that "spechul sauce".

    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Consciousness emerges from brain activity and is (merely) 'what human brains do'.
    Oh, here it is! Thank! You read my mind! Bravo.
    EB

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    One physical material reality
    Prove it.
    EB

  7. Top | #37
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Only physical and material reality exists. Everything else is metaphysical verbiosity.
    Don't agree. A more modern term for the same thing is metanarrative. It answers things like, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What is your place in the world? Why should you accept your station in life? What is worth fighting for? What is the ultimate goal? How does the thing you are doing now contribute to you reaching your ultimate goals in life? What of these goals do I share with others, and how important is it? If you don't answer these questions you'll lack direction in life. You won't be able to get anything done. Often we fall back on default metanarratives. But if you do, you don't really know why you like the stuff you like or why you are doing what you are doing. It's a pretty empty life.
    That's no contradiction to what the OP claims. What you suggest we should do could be re-branded as "anodyne" to use the OP's word. And one could enjoy doing metaphysics every minute of his life and still see it as anodyne. Choose your poison sort of.

    Oh, wait, in fact it's clear we can't stop doing it anyway, including this OP's author. Just to insist that there is a physical world out there is a metaphysical claim. The fact that we all believe in it, including me, doesn't change the situation.
    EB
    I think our brains have evolved to think metaphysically. Even though we rationally might be nihilists our emotions can't use that belief. It's not motivating. And we are inherently emotiinally driven creatures

  8. Top | #38
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    I think our brains have evolved to think metaphysically. Even though we rationally might be nihilists our emotions can't use that belief. It's not motivating. And we are inherently emotiinally driven creatures
    I don't think we need to bring in emotions to explain we can't stop our metaphysical musing. Logic itself is about possibilities. Logical analysis is essentially the identification of logically possible cases. Metaphysics is just delving into a long line of sub-cases of sub-cases of just one of all the initial possible logical cases. God logically exists or not. OK, let's go with God exists. So, God logically is all powerful or not. OK, let's got with all powerful. And so on. Emotions probably decide which sub-cases we choose to assume but the basic mechanism is just logic, and using it has to be the rational thing to do. What else? Of course, being rational also crucially involves checking that your metaphysics is consistent with your qualia. But maybe, according to this, religious people, some of them at least, might be very rational. They may just not have the same qualia as non-believers do...
    EB

  9. Top | #39
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    Originally Posted by ruby sparks
    Our views on consciousness are lathered with spechul sauce, thus we are prone to self-delusions about it, and there is really no need or basis for that.
    Congratulations on your use of "lathered". These views of ours on consciousness, as well as our musings called metaphysics, are lathered indeed. Lots of froth and little worth-while substance.

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    I only need to be right.
    No shit. Who would have ever guessed it?

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