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Thread: Einstein's block universe?

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Einstein's block universe?

    Apparently Einstein believed in a block universe where the past and future exist eternally and are inevitable.

    https://plus.maths.org/content/what-block-time

    "The block universe theory, where time travel is possible but time passing is an illusion"
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ravel/10178386

    This might be compatible with how people think God relates to the universe.

    What do people think of that idea?

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Apparently Einstein believed in a block universe where the past and future exist eternally and are inevitable.

    https://plus.maths.org/content/what-block-time

    "The block universe theory, where time travel is possible but time passing is an illusion"
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ravel/10178386

    This might be compatible with how people think God relates to the universe.

    What do people think of that idea?
    Quantum fluctuations will fuck it up. Each time you time travel it'll be different. There's no way to, even hypothetically, go back and forward in time.

    But more importantly... who cares about what Einstein thinks of anything? It's interesting to study Einstein for historical reasons. But we don't care what... let's say Socrates... said about things he was wrong about. We only care about the stuff that has held up. We don't let the stuff he was wrong about tarnish his memory.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    ....Quantum fluctuations will fuck it up. Each time you time travel it'll be different. There's no way to, even hypothetically, go back and forward in time...
    Maybe the part about time travel is not useful but the focus of this is about the block universe in general.

    But more importantly... who cares about what Einstein thinks of anything?
    I do.

    It's interesting to study Einstein for historical reasons. But we don't care what... let's say Socrates... said about things he was wrong about. We only care about the stuff that has held up. We don't let the stuff he was wrong about tarnish his memory.
    I think there are more modern supporters of the block universe, and like I said it could be compatible with Christians' views of the universe and God.

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    I think there are more modern supporters of the block universe, and like I said it could be compatible with Christians' views of the universe and God.
    It's interesting why you would use the term "supporters"? You make it sound like it's a sports team or a religion. This is just science. Unless you're a scientist, nobody cares what you support or believe. If you, as a layperson pick a team, you have delusions of grandeur. To quote Niel DeGrasse Tyson. The nice thing about science is that it's true whether you believe in it or not.

    Right now we have a bag of about 300 viable theory of everything hypothesis, which might all be wrong.

    ...and who cares if if a scientific theory is compatible with Christians views of the universe? Religion is just myth. It's not objective reality. It might resonate with you for poetic reasons and might describe a version reality that evokes feelings within you, but religion isn't science. Who cares if science is compatible with religion? Science is reality. Religion is myth. Science is reason. Religion is emotions. They're not remotely discussing the same thing. You can feel God's presence in your heart even if God, in a scientific sense, doesn't exist.

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    Apparently Einstein believed in a block universe where the past and future exist eternally and are inevitable.

    https://plus.maths.org/content/what-block-time

    "The block universe theory, where time travel is possible but time passing is an illusion"
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ravel/10178386

    This might be compatible with how people think God relates to the universe.

    What do people think of that idea?
    If there is a real Universe where time is just an illusion, and God created everything, then God created everything at once. There is no A cause B cause C cause D etc. A is because God created A, B is because Go created B and so on. Thus God creates all moral evil, all natural evil. God then is evil. God then created Hitler and all his actions to the most infitesimal degree. We have no free will. All is just a bizarre puppet show performed by God for what end?

    This block Universe idea is shaky on a number of fronts, but if we take it seriously for sake of argument, it utterly devastates the idea of God as understood by Christianity, Islam and similar religions with an omni-everything creator God outside of time and space.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    I don't think it's true to say that Einstein was a proponent of the block universe as it is ordinarily understood. In the mind's eye, you can imagine this "block" as being a chunk of spacetime filled with events and extended in spatial and temporal dimensions, but existing statically or "all at once". This last part violates the central concept of Einstein's life's work, which is that there is no "at once" that applies beyond the reference frame of a given observer moving at a given speed. For a block universe to make any sense, there would have to be a stable axis of time, such that you could put this block universe on a meat slicer and shave off a discrete quantity of duration that is synchronized across the surface of the slice. Time doesn't work that way. The "present moment" of the Andromeda galaxy, relative to Earth, is effectively two million years long, with no privileged spot within it to properly match up to what we call "now" way over here. And that's our closest galactic neighbor! Anything like a block representing spacetime would surely dissolve into incoherence at the scale of the cosmos.

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    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Interestingly, combining the block universe with religion pretty much destroys all the teachings of religion. Everything that has ever happened and will ever happen would be already set in stone by god so there can be no free will, no morality, no sin, etc.

    All of an eternal universe would just be a four dimensional fixed piece of art that god could hang over the fireplace in his five dimensional den and occasionally admire when he has nothing else to do. This would make humanity much less than insignificant to the point of meaningless.
    Last edited by skepticalbip; 10-29-2018 at 08:48 PM.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Interestingly, combining the block universe with religion pretty much destroys all the teachings of religion. Everything that has ever happened and will ever happen would be already set in stone by god so there can be no free will, no morality, no sin, etc.

    All of an eternal universe would just be a four dimensional fixed piece of art that god could hang over the fireplace in his five dimensional den and occasionally admire when he has nothing else to do. This would make humanity much less than insignificant to the point of meaningless.
    "God Logically Implies A Block Universe Theory Of Time"
    http://wmbriggs.com/post/22839/

    cambridgeblog.org/2008/09/god-and-time/
    "...In other words, what God sees is exactly the block universe. Since any theologian must believe that God knows things as they truly are, this would seem to give theological endorsement to the concept of the block universe...."

    About free will:
    https://www.skepticink.com/tippling/...lock-universe/

    Note I am an agnostic.

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    About the consistent time loops in the block universe: (BTW think "Interstellar" and "12 Monkeys" have consistent time loops)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noviko...ency_principle
    Last edited by excreationist; 10-30-2018 at 01:36 AM.

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    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Sorry but neither of those two posts was a response. This is a discussion board, don't you have an opinion or thought? I can google and find tons of other people's opinion in blogs and articles about almost any subject, but that is not a discussion.

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