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Thread: Einstein's block universe?

  1. Top | #21
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    That is what I was attempting to answer in the post you quoted... repteated here:
    I don't see that a block time universe would be so much a matter that god knows the future as it would be that the past, present, and future are all created together so all exist simultaneously. It would be a fixed, unvarying universe and if there's a god then he would be at least a five dimensional critter so sees what we think of as past, present, and future as one fixed unchanging block.
    Sorry could you be more clear? Does the hypothetical God know the future? Yes or no? I think for Christians who believe in predestination God does know the future - in every little detail. He knows what everyone will do.

  2. Top | #22
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    ....In effect I see it as god would know everything that has occured, is occurring, and will ever occur because it was all created together... it was all set, so since it was all set then nothing can change. This means predetermined to the smallest detail so humans can not change anything having no free will.
    Yes I think that is the concept of predestination. I don't really understand it but many believers claim it is compatible with "free will".

    This is a universe that I, personally, don't see as possible but it is what the universe would be if the current model of block time is assumed.
    Why is a fully deterministic universe impossible? Many believe in it. Block time is based on a deterministic universe.

    BTW
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination
    "Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God..."
    Also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predeterminism
    "Predeterminism is the idea that all events are determined in advance. Predeterminism is the philosophy that all events of history, past, present and future, have been already decided or are already known (by God, fate, or some other force), including human actions."

    That sounds compatible with the block universe.
    Last edited by excreationist; 11-01-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  3. Top | #23
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    There are at least four interpretations of QM that are deterministic;
    ''Interestingly enough, the formalism of quantum mechanics is itself deterministic. Assuming you know the initial state of an isolated quantum system, the system will then evolve forward in time, following Schrodinger’s equation exactly. The only aspect of quantum theory which is random is what happens when you make a measurement.''

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    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    This might be compatible with how people think God relates to the universe.

    What do people think of that idea?
    According to some perspectives God always has access to the whole, which can mean stuff like: God has multiple save points, or God has many worlds evolving at different rates (so one of the differences in the many worlds is the rate that time passes in different worlds)....
    Though I used to prefer the multiverse idea (due to it making abiogenesis and evolution inevitable) I don't think it is very compatible with traditional Christianity.
    Here are some criticisms of it:
    https://answersingenesis.org/astrono...he-multiverse/
    https://answersingenesis.org/astrono...e-one-of-many/

    To riff on the many worlds interpretation: there could be a world (verse in the multiverse) that is now 10^-42 seconds after the big bang. Information could be inserted in this world that would change the evolution of the whole. There could be another world that is 10 minutes before I posted this message with a naked picture of me before the power went out. I'm hoping.

    So when God learns something new- a new way of dealing with things, then God can insert this and re-evolve the universe from a past point. Parts of the universe will stay the same, parts will not (depending on whether there is a universal information update or not- and where in the evolution of the universe the "new" information is acting).
    Many Christians would say that God can't learn something new. (though maybe there is some Biblical support when he regrets things like making man)

    I don't know about a block universe- I think I have a block brain though.

  5. Top | #25
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Being omniscient and having to learn appears to be an oxymoron.

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Being omniscient and having to learn appears to be an oxymoron.
    I'd go further and say that intelligence, or the ability to figure things out, is also unnecessary.

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    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Being omniscient and having to learn appears to be an oxymoron.
    Obviously. If god already knows everything about everything then there is nothing left to learn about.

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Being omniscient and having to learn appears to be an oxymoron.
    I'd go further and say that intelligence, or the ability to figure things out, is also unnecessary.
    There is nothing to figure out, no surprises, no emotions, no thought processes or reasoning required, no decisions to make.

  9. Top | #29
    Senior Member excreationist's Avatar
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    skepticalbip:
    Could you please explain why it can't be possible for a universe to exist that doesn't in your view allow free will? Note that a thing you are against, Predeterminism, has supporters that are convinced it is compatible with free will.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predeterminism

  10. Top | #30
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excreationist View Post
    skepticalbip:
    Could you please explain why it can't be possible for a universe to exist that doesn't in your view allow free will? Note that a thing you are against, Predeterminism, has supporters that are convinced it is compatible with free will.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predeterminism

    It is the nature of the universe that block time specifies that I have a problem with which has nothing to do with free will. I would have the same problem if there were no humans. It isn't the issue of free will that makes such a universe a problem. You just seem to worry about humans so I mentioned that such a universe would not allow for free will either because everything would already be set and unchangeable..

    Maybe you could explain why you think a fixed unchanging block time universe would allow for free will instead of linking a site I can't communicate with.

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