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Thread: Democrats 2020

  1. Top | #3631
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Xoxarle1 View Post
    Not sure I put much faith in head-to-head polling at this early stage. If Sanders emerges as the winner, he's going to be truly pummelled by corporate and PAC ad spend. It will be Bloomberg on steriods. The following industries, already some of the most powerful lobbyists in DC, will see him as an existential threat: Big Pharma, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Oil And Gas, Health Insurers, Hospital Chains, Banks, Defense Contractors. They would likely only need to move the needle by 5 percent points. Bloomberg has moved it 15 points by spending half a billion. You can't tell me those industries couldn't amass a warchest 10 or even 100 times that size.
    Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred. - FDR
    I wonder how FDR would have fared in 1936 if his opponents had the ability to paste every billboard and swamp every radio with slogans or soundbites about him coming for their bibles, guns, paychecks, flags and unborn babies. It's a little easier to welcome hatred in an era where mass communication is in its infancy and the gatekeepers aren't quite so eager to allow outright slander. Remember, Zuckerberg has no financial incentive whatsoever to stem the flow of anti-progressive propaganda, considering their threats to regulate his company.

  2. Top | #3632
    Elder Contributor angelo's Avatar
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    Living in Perth Western Australia, I can only get snippets of the clowns debates. But what I did see so far are far better comedy that's on the idiot box now, or has been since the days of Seinfeld and Friends.

  3. Top | #3633
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Living in Perth Western Australia, I can only get snippets of the clowns debates. But what I did see so far are far better comedy that's on the idiot box now, or has been since the days of Seinfeld and Friends.
    I guess you totally miss the real entertainment - like Cheato's "press conference" yesterday:

    Cheato:
    "I am pleased to present the world's greatest medical experts because the democrats caused the stock market crash and you need to re-elect me. There isn't going to be any covid-19 in the US and we almost have a vaccine. Now, here are my experts - give 'em a big hand, folks!"
    Expert 1: "It is certain that Covid-19 will spread in the US, it's just a matter of when and how much." (At that moment another network is announcing a case in rural CA where the infected person never traveled, so must have contracted it locally)
    Expert 2: "We are at least a year and a half from having a vaccine"
    Cheato: "Thank you all, and remember: if anything bad happens, it was the Democrats, and that's why I defunded the cdc, eliminated the Whitehouse pandemic response team and the NS health threat mitigation systems - we don't need them, as these illustrious experts have told you. Now go home, don't worry, and ignore everything anyone but me tells you about it because I know more about epidemiology than the epidemiologists!"

    Now THAT's entertainment! Too bad you missed it angelo.

  4. Top | #3634
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Oh, and the kicker: Mike Pence is now in charge of our pandemic response.

    But the other point is also true. The debates have been clown shows.

  5. Top | #3635
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Living in Perth Western Australia, I can only get snippets of the clowns debates. But what I did see so far are far better comedy that's on the idiot box now, or has been since the days of Seinfeld and Friends.
    You may be able to find the full videos of the debates in places like YouTube. Dig deeper.

    What Defines The Sanders Coalition? | FiveThirtyEight
    Sen. Bernie Sanders’s coalition isn’t that big, at least not right now — he won about a quarter of Democratic primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, plus about a third of the first-alignment vote in Nevada,1 and about a quarter to a third of Democratic voters say they support him in most state and national polls. But Sanders’s backers are worth understanding because of what they’ve accomplished: making a democratic socialist who is not officially a Democrat the front-runner to lead the Democratic Party, over the objections of virtually all of the party’s establishment and many of its voters.
    But his opposition is divided, and his opponents are rumored to be talking about some of them quitting so as to get a candidate with more voter support.
    His base is younger voters and the very liberal

    He won Latinos, but his coalition is multiracial

    Many of his backers don’t have a college degree

    It’s hard to say how much income matters

    ...
    Second, looking at Sanders’s support helps explain his tensions with the Democratic Party establishment. Very liberal Democrats, those under 45, those without degrees and those with incomes below $50,000 represent a substantial portion of the Democratic electorate — enough to basically lift a candidate like Sanders to the top of the polls (especially in a field as crowded as this one). But most establishment Democrats don’t fit into any of those categories.

  6. Top | #3636
    Contributor PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    I don't think that Sanders will lose Florida over this one casual comment. What he said is true. Not everything that Communists have done has been bad. Cubans are highly educated and have made some considerable advances in medical care. However, it was a comment that could, and will, be taken out of context and used against him. He really needs to avoid putting himself in the role of a salesman for socialism. He should do more to explain what has been wrong with these regimes, and I think he is starting to realize that. He should do more to tie Trump to the dictators that Trump has cozied up to.
    He is in a tough spot, because many of his supporters are aware of the truth about Castro(which is that he was a hero to Cuba and one of the greatest people who ever lived), but he is running for the president of a settler-colonial empire that is committed to snuffing out socialist countries and painting their leaders as despots. The American left doesn't want to confront that yet and just wants comfortable socialism within its own borders. If Bernie fails to enact his reforms due to the institutional barriers that will be placed in his way, my hope is that the left will become radicalized by this and rethink their indoctrination about Cuba, the USSR, and other places where socialism is being built. But now isn't the time for that conversation, as most of the comments on this forum demonstrate.
    Have you gone full tankie?
    Where have you been? Yes!

  7. Top | #3637
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Why The Establishment Can’t Bank On ‘Moderate’ Voters Consolidating Against Sanders | FiveThirtyEight
    It might seem like “moderate” voters could consolidate behind one alternative to thwart Sanders’s path to the nomination. That’s possible, but one thing it assumes is that voters understand politics in ideological terms. And many don’t — political scientists have long found that most of the public does not fit into neat ideological boxes.

    Rather, people often hold conflicting opinions on policy issues.
    Often supporting some of one party's platform and supporting some of the other party's platform. Right-libertarians agree with the Democratic Party on social issues and the Republican Party on economic issues, thus the joke that they are Republicans who smoke pot.

    Until recently, ideology played a limited role in American public opinion because the parties themselves were not that distinguishable on matters of ideology. In 1956, Americans could identify the party nominees’ positions on an issue and had a position on it themselves only 31 percent of the time. But by 2012 that number had risen to 77 percent. Likewise, the percentage of Americans that said they saw important differences between the parties rose, from 50 percent in 1952 to 83 percent in 2016.
    So there might not be much of a middle left.

  8. Top | #3638
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Moderate (middle) isn't determining anything. Trump took health care away from middle income voters and now we're on the edge of a recession. Those factors will determine the people who will vote against the idiot.

  9. Top | #3639
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Why The Establishment Can’t Bank On ‘Moderate’ Voters Consolidating Against Sanders | FiveThirtyEight
    It might seem like “moderate” voters could consolidate behind one alternative to thwart Sanders’s path to the nomination. That’s possible, but one thing it assumes is that voters understand politics in ideological terms. And many don’t — political scientists have long found that most of the public does not fit into neat ideological boxes.

    Rather, people often hold conflicting opinions on policy issues.
    Often supporting some of one party's platform and supporting some of the other party's platform. Right-libertarians agree with the Democratic Party on social issues and the Republican Party on economic issues, thus the joke that they are Republicans who smoke pot.

    Until recently, ideology played a limited role in American public opinion because the parties themselves were not that distinguishable on matters of ideology. In 1956, Americans could identify the party nominees’ positions on an issue and had a position on it themselves only 31 percent of the time. But by 2012 that number had risen to 77 percent. Likewise, the percentage of Americans that said they saw important differences between the parties rose, from 50 percent in 1952 to 83 percent in 2016.
    So there might not be much of a middle left.
    The other thing to keep in mind is that Sanders frequently polls well as a second choice candidate, even for Bloomberg supporters (although he comes second there), but does poorly with Buttigieg supporters (who are all old anyway, so that isn't shocking). But he still tops the second choice for Warren and Biden.

  10. Top | #3640
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Moderate (middle) isn't determining anything. Trump took health care away from middle income voters and now we're on the edge of a recession. Those factors will determine the people who will vote against the idiot.
    People think that "independents" are "moderate". They aren't.

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