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Thread: Democrats 2020

  1. Top | #2651
    Super Moderator ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Actually, you are correct. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It gets paid by someone. And UHC will cost more. However, it's a higher expense that I'm willing to pay for, for the following reasons: It would give me personal satisfaction knowing that the people in the area where I live all have access to heath care; I would know that if I failed at something, that there would be additional safety net for me to help get back on my feet; having all people treated would lower the chance of an untreatable communicable disease could spread; and having all people treated would increase the number of health care positions, increasing jobs.
    Well said, imo, and indeed not a bad rationale. I tend to agree, especially about the potential wider aspects of any cost/benefit analysis, and would be happy to pay more taxes if they went in this direction.

    Another potential situation is that the government as main healthcare provider might be in a good position to negotiate lower prices for American drugs and indeed those from other countries. As you may know, Trump has called our NHS a 'foreign freeloader' in regard to this, although there are also reports that UK government Health Ministers, including the current one, are pandering to Big Pharma by easing in the recommendation of more expensive drugs that are apparently no more effective than cheaper alternatives, and of course everything is already on the table as regards higher drug prices being part of any trade deal between the UK & the USA if there's a hard Brexit.

    Do you know what the relevant ballpark comparison figures might be, or what estimates (I'm almost sure not everyone will agree on them) have been put forward? I mean the hypothetical extra for UHC per individual as compared to the average current cost of equivalent private cover? Some figures were suggested a few posts back by ZiprHead, but I'm not sure where they come from.

  2. Top | #2652
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    There is no such thing as a free lunch ... UHC will cost more.
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Well said, imo, and indeed not a bad rationale.
    Huh? More than WHAT? And why? Do you want health care for lunch, or would you like rampant sickness, preventable deaths and failure to heal from injuries for your lunch?
    Which has the greater cost at the end of the day?
    I think health care is cheaper. MUCH cheaper.
    In fact, so much cheaper that the difference can more than compensate for those who over-use the system, a certain number of outright cheats, and those who truly do require extreme medical interventions.
    YMMV, but if you contend that health care costs more overall than health neglect, I'd like to see some supporting facts.

  3. Top | #2653
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    It boggles my mind how anyone could think that a profit oriented medical insurance system would somehow cost LESS. Profit seeking health insurance companies don't make it somehow cheaper. *scratches head*

    Moreover, when we're all in it together via univeral single payer, we gain reason to push other health programs and encourage healthy living for the whole community. Everything from fitness to pollution to preventative medicine becomes relevant in a way it just isn't in a "I've got mine" sort of system.

  4. Top | #2654
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Thank you. - Steve Bullock - Medium
    Thank you for your belief, your trust, and your support.

    Today, I announced that I’m suspending my campaign for President. While there were many obstacles we could not have anticipated when entering into this race, it has become clear that in this moment, I won’t be able to break through to the top tier of this still-crowded field of candidates.
    Who might be next?

  5. Top | #2655
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Who might be next?
    ¿Hulian?

  6. Top | #2656
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

  7. Top | #2657
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    Well, I can toss her on the heap of failed primary predictions by Jimmy Higgins. Let's see... 2016 was Harris, 2008... well I got Obama right, 2004, Bill Richardson kind of didn't make it and that was after Gore in '04.

    Oh! And Trump won't make it to Iowa in '16.

  8. Top | #2658
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    I am really surprised at Kamala quitting now. She qualified for the 6th debate in her back yard. I'd think she would hold out at least until that home game, hoping for a 2nd wind. In any case, she is doing much better than a number of other candidates. I mean ¡Hulian! and Corey must be hurting for money even more than Kamala, and they are certainly doing worse in polls.

    Maybe somebody (Bloomberg?) promised her the Veep slot if she quit now.

  9. Top | #2659
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Or else she didn't want to get into too much debt.

    Can The Black Left Stop Biden? | FiveThirtyEight
    There is no official “black left.” What I’m describing here is a bloc of people who have gained power and prominence since the 2014 protests in Ferguson, Missouri, that turned Black Lives Matter into one of the most important civil rights movements of the past decade. This bloc is distinct from what I would describe as the black establishment, which includes powerful black institutions and people: longtime civil rights activists and ministers like Jesse Jackson Sr. and Al Sharpton; veteran members of the Congressional Black Caucus; groups like the National Urban League and the NAACP; and President Obama and his close allies.

    The black left includes:
    • The activists and groups who either were involved in protesting the 2012 killing of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, went to Ferguson two years later or subsequently organized in opposition to police practices that they felt were discriminatory against black people.
    • Black leaders of prominent liberal groups, such as Maurice Mitchell of the Working Families Party.
    • Left-leaning black academics and intellectuals who have big followings, such as authors Ta-Nehisi Coates and Roxane Gay and regular MSNBC contributor and Princeton University professor Eddie Glaude.
    • New generation civil rights organizations such as Color of Change and Dream Defenders.
    • More liberal black elected officials, such as Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison and Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota.
    Reminds me of something I saw somewhere that some Congressional Black Caucus members defended taking corporate money by saying that their districts are too poor for anyone to give very much. Also about some members accepting money from private-prison companies.

    The black left objects to Joe Biden for familiar reasons: he's too centrist and establishment.
    “Joe Biden shouldn’t be president,” Coates said in an interview on “Democracy Now!” back in July, noting that Biden “wanted more people sentenced to the death penalty, wanted more jails,” in earlier stages of his career.

    What’s different for the black left — as opposed to the white left — is that its views are very deeply in tension with the broader black Democratic electorate, at least so far.
    A problem with the black left is that it is very decentralized. There isn't any "Black Lives Matter" central organization, for instance.

    It has had a little bit of success, however, in electing reform-minded prosecutors in various places, like San Francisco.
    “The church doesn’t have the power and influence it used to,” Aimee Allison, founder of She the People, a San Francisco-based group created in 2018 that is focused on motivating liberal women of color, told me. (Allison’s group has not endorsed a candidate but Allison herself expressed wariness about Biden during my interview with her). “There are new and powerful people and networks that are being activated,” she added.
    So black people are becoming more secular also.

  10. Top | #2660
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    These guessing games are pretty funny. I read an article yesterday about how black primary voters might help get Biden nominated. I showed it to a black friend of mine who believes that Biden is the best candidate. She really, really likes Biden and has no positive feelings for any of the other candidates.


    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...delegates.html


    Southern states and urban areas to help him accrue the 1,990 delegates needed to clinch the nomination.

    It might work. That’s because an overwhelming majority of delegates are awarded from areas more racially diverse than Iowa and New Hampshire. If Mr. Biden retains his strength with black voters, he’d have a structural advantage in the nomination race that is greater than his uneven lead in national polls suggests.

    Think of it this way: Candidates gain delegates based on voting in both states and districts, which are Congressional districts in all but a few places. While Iowa and New Hampshire may generate political momentum for a winner because they vote first, the two states award very few delegates. By contrast, a candidate who is popular in California, Texas and predominantly black districts in the South could pick up big shares of delegates.

    A recent poll shows Mr. Biden at 44 percent among black voters in South Carolina, the early voting state with a majority-black Democratic electorate, and a historic harbinger for how the South will vote. The same poll had Mr. Biden’s next closest competitor, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, trailing him by more than 30 percentage points among black voters.
    I really don't think anyone has a clue as to who will be the Democratic nominee. Some people aren't even paying attention yet, and won't until a few weeks before the primaries. Lots of people keep changing their minds and some can't decide who they might want. I'm not making any predictions.

    There are a small percentage of black voters who aren't religious, but I don't see that as important. Every single black person I know personally has told me that they will vote for whoever becomes the nominee. I have one black friend who has changed her mind three times already. First she wanted Booker, then Biden and the last time I asked her, she was thinking of supporting Warren. If I see her tomorrow, I'll ask her who she supports this week. .

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