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Thread: Is it possible to doubt you are experiencing?

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Maybe, maybe not.

    True story:

    Many years ago, I was driving in a residential neighborhood after dark. There was a house on a corner which had a high wooden fence shielding their side yard(garden, to the Brits). I had passed this fence many times, day and night. This night I happened to look at the fence and saw a nude woman standing in a full length window, just the other side of the fence.

    It's no great mystery. I was traveling at the optimum speed and the cracks between the fence boards allowed my brain to see a ribbon piece and reassemble them into a full picture.

    Now, I have the experience of seeing a naked woman in her dining room, while at the same time, I know, I saw no such thing. Perception is reality, but perception can be distorted, or mistaken. There is no true all sensual experience. Everything perceived by the senses is processed by the brain and is subject to a thousand errors before it becomes a conscious thought.
    You still experienced what you experienced. And you know you experienced it.

    That is how you can talk about.

    What it is you actually experienced is another matter.
    That is circular reasoning. My experience and the memory of the experience are two very different things.
    It is linear reasoning.

    You experienced something and now say you experienced it.

    The question is: At the time you were experiencing it were you certain you were experiencing it?

    Of course memory degrades.

    Look at your hand.

    Are you certain you are experiencing your hand?

    Or do you doubt you are experiencing your hand?

    If you doubt it, how?

  2. Top | #12
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post

    That is circular reasoning. My experience and the memory of the experience are two very different things.
    It is linear reasoning.

    You experienced something and now say you experienced it.

    The question is: At the time you were experiencing it were you certain you were experiencing it?

    Of course memory degrades.

    Look at your hand.

    Are you certain you are experiencing your hand?

    Or do you doubt you are experiencing your hand?

    If you doubt it, how?
    There is nothing linear in saying an experience is something you experience.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post

    That is circular reasoning. My experience and the memory of the experience are two very different things.
    It is linear reasoning.

    You experienced something and now say you experienced it.

    The question is: At the time you were experiencing it were you certain you were experiencing it?

    Of course memory degrades.

    Look at your hand.

    Are you certain you are experiencing your hand?

    Or do you doubt you are experiencing your hand?

    If you doubt it, how?
    There is nothing linear in saying an experience is something you experience.
    That is not what is being said.

    What is being asked is: Is there absolute certainty we are experiencing what we are experiencing?

    This is about certainty and doubt.

    Nothing circular about any of it.

  4. Top | #14
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    I experience the sunset.

    I experience the cool breeze.

    I experience the warm touch.

    Is it possible to doubt I am experiencing what I am experiencing?

    How is it possible to doubt I am experiencing what I am experiencing?

    Depending on mental state, you may or may not doubt that you are experiencing. You can also doubt the nature of the experience, you may be hallucinating, your perception of the world may be flawed, etc.

    ''Visual hallucinations in psychosis are hallucinations accompanied by delusions, which are abnormal beliefs that are endorsed by patients as real, that persist in spite of evidence to the contrary, and that are not part of a patient's culture or subculture.''

    Visual hallucinations may not always mean mental illness

    ''Patients with CBS do not a mental illness or cognition problems and are very aware that they are seeing images that are not there.

    The visual hallucinations that CBS patients experience differ from psychotic hallucinations. In psychotic hallucinations, patients are involved in the hallucinations. In CBS-induced hallucinations, patients simply see things, like watching a movie. They are not involved with the hallucination. Patients with CBS are usually, but not always, unafraid of what they see.

    An interesting feature of this syndrome is that patients often have Lilliputian visions. In other words, they see characters or objects that are smaller than normal. They may see a person that is no bigger than their finger. One of the more common hallucinations in CBS is cartoon characters or characters with deformed faces. A lot of color may be involved. Patients with CBS also often see visions of people and places of bygone eras; researchers cannot explain why this occurs.''

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    I experience the sunset.

    I experience the cool breeze.

    I experience the warm touch.

    Is it possible to doubt I am experiencing what I am experiencing?

    How is it possible to doubt I am experiencing what I am experiencing?

    Depending on mental state, you may or may not doubt that you are experiencing.
    If you are experiencing something how do you doubt you are experiencing it?

    You can also doubt the nature of the experience, you may be hallucinating, your perception of the world may be flawed, etc.
    If you are experiencing something how do you doubt you are experiencing it?

    If you experience an hallucination you are experiencing it.

    You are not experiencing something else.

    ''Patients with CBS do not a mental illness or cognition problems and are very aware that they are seeing images that are not there.
    If they are experiencing it then the image is there.

    It is what they are experiencing.

    And they know beyond doubt it is what they are experiencing.

    They know they are not experiencing something else.

    You presented a lot of unconnected irrelevant ideas but never once addressed the questions asked.

    These are philosophical questions that can only be answered by thinking. There are no studies to look at.

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    Shrunken Member WAB's Avatar
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    I very often doubt the doubter.

    I sometimes doubt my memories of an experience, especially if I was drunk or high; but I never doubt an experience when I am experiencing it.

    So I guess my answer is that yes, someone can claim that they doubt their experience, but I doubt their doubt is genuine - not that I know it's not genuine, simply that I doubt it. I think it's often more of an intellectual formality: a kind of insurance against being thought of as a naive realist or a simpleton.
    If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to a library. - Frank Zappa

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    How would you doubt that the thing you are experiencing is the thing you are experiencing?

    There is nowhere doubt could enter the picture.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    If you are experiencing something how do you doubt you are experiencing it?
    It's a question of what you are experiencing, not that you are experiencing something. That there is an experience is clear. It is what you are experiencing that may be an illusion. Everything you experience may be an illusion, you may be psychotic, locked in a padded cell imaging a world of your own. You know that you experience, but do not understand the nature of your illusionary experience.

    Depending on your mental state, you may or may not question the reality of your experience. There is no experience unless something is being experienced, it is that 'something' that is open to question.

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    If you are experiencing something how do you doubt you are experiencing it?
    It's a question of what you are experiencing...
    That's not my question.

    Go start your own thread on that totally different topic since you don't seem to be able to understand this one.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post

    If you are experiencing something how do you doubt you are experiencing it?
    It's a question of what you are experiencing...
    That's not my question.

    Go start your own thread on that totally different topic since you don't seem to be able to understand this one.
    I cannot doubt you are experiencing difficulties in expressing such a simple idea.

    The point you're trying but failing to put across has been belaboured by philosophers. The answer is well known. So, why do you think asking people here will get you any extra bonus point in favour of your views?

    And why do you keep expressing yourself so poorly that you can't even explain even such a basic idea?
    EB

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