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Thread: The human mind

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    The human mind

    We tend to see our conscious mind, i.e. the part of our mind that's capable of proper reasoning, i.e. thinking using a formal language, as properly "us". This is the "I" in Descartes' Cogito, I think, therefore I am. We also see it as the part that's really intelligent compared to our more brutish, instinctive, "intuitive", and essentially apparently non-conscious mind. Many people think of this as a two-system set-up. The second system, the conscious part of our mind, is assumed as having evolved at some point in our more recent history well after the first system was already in place, system which is seen therefore as much closer in terms of evolution to that of our closest animal relatives. Basically, we tend to think that all the intelligent ideas we have when awake are produced by the second system, typically through a sort of "verbal", or formal, thinking. The first system is usually understood as providing us with emotions, sensations, perceptions etc. and also intuitions.

    What do you think of this view?

    Do you have any alternative view?
    EB

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    There is the contemplative autonomous mind with limited control but where control can increase with practice.

    And we are amazed at the control of the juggler that has practiced.

    There are also the drives and emotions that impinge upon the mind, distort the mind, guide the mind, excite the mind.

    But the drives and emotions can also be controlled by the autonomous mind.

    And with practice controlled very well like a skilled juggler.

    One merely has to want to control them. One has to choose to control them. Like the skilled pilot who stays in control when an engine goes out where many would be senseless with uncontrolled fear.

    With a mind that has limited control.

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    A+ for metaphysical gymnastics.

    However I am puzzled. Can you explain how we 'see our minds'? It is unclear what this means.

    U would think Descartes would answer all your ongoing questions about mind and reality. To question and think implies mind. Simple, elegant, and profound.

    Personally I prefer 'I fart therefore I exist'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito,_ergo_sum

    Cogito, ergo sum[a] is a Latin philosophical proposition by René Descartes usually translated into English as "I think, therefore I am".[b] The phrase originally appeared in French as je pense, donc je suis in his Discourse on the Method, so as to reach a wider audience than Latin would have allowed.[1] It appeared in Latin in his later Principles of Philosophy. As Descartes explained, "we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt...." A fuller version, articulated by Antoine Léonard Thomas, aptly captures Descartes’s intent: dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum ("I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am").[c][d] The concept is also sometimes known as the cogito.[2]

    This proposition became a fundamental element of Western philosophy, as it purported to form a secure foundation for knowledge in the face of radical doubt. While other knowledge could be a figment of imagination, deception, or mistake, Descartes asserted that the very act of doubting one's own existence served—at minimum—as proof of the reality of one's own mind; there must be a thinking entity—in this case the self—for there to be a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    A+ for metaphysical gymnastics.

    However I am puzzled. Can you explain how we 'see our minds'? It is unclear what this means.
    Sorry, I don't see what you mean. If you could explain.
    EB

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Personally I prefer 'I fart therefore I exist'.
    You are a mind that experiences and has limited control of the body.

    The body farts.

    Not you.

    All you can do is push that fart a little harder or hold it in.

    You could say: "I know about farts therefore I exist".

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    Senior Member OLDMAN's Avatar
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    This is a well done article on how pot influences the brain. One can see how other things (emotions) might release chemicals that alter how we process our thoughts and ideas.




    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/thc/

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    That does show how marijuana changes the behavior of cells.

    And it states that changing the behavior of cells will change experience and subjective reports, which is true.

    But it does not show any understanding of how cellular behavior results in a subject capable of making reports about the things it experiences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMAN View Post
    This is a well done article on how pot influences the brain. One can see how other things (emotions) might release chemicals that alter how we process our thoughts and ideas.




    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/thc/
    When we feel threatened stress hormones are released in the blood along with more adrenalin. In the fight or flight state reason fades and survival instinct takes over.

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    Senior Member OLDMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMAN View Post
    This is a well done article on how pot influences the brain. One can see how other things (emotions) might release chemicals that alter how we process our thoughts and ideas.




    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/thc/
    When we feel threatened stress hormones are released in the blood along with more adrenalin. In the fight or flight state reason fades and survival instinct takes over.
    Right, and so I don't think it is too much of a stretch to see how hormones can alter feelings, or how long bouts of depression can alter which chemicals the brain releases.

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    Senior Member OLDMAN's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    That does show how marijuana changes the behavior of cells.

    And it states that changing the behavior of cells will change experience and subjective reports, which is true.

    But it does not show any understanding of how cellular behavior results in a subject capable of making reports about the things it experiences.
    Just as a spider can build a web with genetic information that is passed on from one generation to the next, these brain cells function as triggers that coalesce information into pools of patterns. These patterns are memorable and can be altered as our experiences grow. Before you know it your thinking outside the box.

    At least that is my take on it...

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