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Thread: The human mind

  1. Top | #101
    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAB View Post

    That ^ is the hard problem of consciousness presented by David Chalmers in 1995, and not sufficiently answered since. Dennet avoided it, didn't answer it.
    [emphasis mine] - Wikipedia
    The polymath and philosopher Gottfried Leibniz wrote in 1714, as an example also known as Leibniz's gap:

    Moreover, it must be confessed that perception and that which depends upon it are inexplicable on mechanical grounds, that is to say, by means of figures and motions. And supposing there were a machine, so constructed as to think, feel, and have perception, it might be conceived as increased in size, while keeping the same proportions, so that one might go into it as into a mill. That being so, we should, on examining its interior, find only parts which work one upon another, and never anything by which to explain a perception.[10]
    [emphasis mine] - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_p..._consciousness
    Hear, hear!

    Still, you will find that some people here will read your post in minute details, and magnify it the more to be able to read it to their heart's content, and magnify it further still in raging frustration, because upon furious reading and upon extraordinary magnification, they will only find utterly meaningless pixels and still won't be able to find anything like pure meaning, even though meaning somewhere there must be, as we all certainly know.
    EB

  2. Top | #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    To us all is experience.

    We are not bodies.

    We are minds that experience.

    And we are not imagining what is happening. We are experiencing a brain created representation of what is happening.

    You are saying all is a myth.
    In a nutshell, yes. A brain created representation. That's what brains do. How is that not a product of the imagination? It's part of the specification. Consciousness is "what it's like" to be something. The basic operation of describing one thing in terms of others things.
    Experience is representation because of external stimulation.

    Imagination is non-representation, abstraction, because of internal stimulation.

  3. Top | #103
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    That it is not yet understood how a brain forms consciousness does not mean that it not clear that it takes the physical presence and electro-chemical activity of a brain to form and generate consciousness...the expression of which is directly related to the architecture and information state of that brain determining its attributes and abilities of mind/consciousness.

  4. Top | #104
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    OK so now neurons which have mechanisms for transmitting and receiving transmitter chemicals are at the mercy of electricity?

    A parse too far!

    Bonn.

    Put untermenche is the wagon boys. He's going home to The Home where he belongs.

  5. Top | #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    That it is not yet understood how a brain forms consciousness does not mean that it not clear that it takes the physical presence and electro-chemical activity of a brain to form and generate consciousness...the expression of which is directly related to the architecture and information state of that brain determining its attributes and abilities of mind/consciousness.
    Nowhere have I ever said the mind is not a product of brain activity.

    It is a product of activity that can have an organized feedback effect.

    You cannot claim that simple feedback is some miraculous impossibility.

  6. Top | #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    OK so now neurons which have mechanisms for transmitting and receiving transmitter chemicals are at the mercy of electricity?

    A parse too far!

    Bonn.

    Put untermenche is the wagon boys. He's going home to The Home where he belongs.
    No such claim has been made.

    The mind does not effect cells.

    It effects the activity that creates it.

    This effects cells.

  7. Top | #107
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    That it is not yet understood how a brain forms consciousness does not mean that it not clear that it takes the physical presence and electro-chemical activity of a brain to form and generate consciousness...the expression of which is directly related to the architecture and information state of that brain determining its attributes and abilities of mind/consciousness.
    Nowhere have I ever said the mind is not a product of brain activity.

    It is a product of activity that can have an organized feedback effect.

    You cannot claim that simple feedback is some miraculous impossibility.
    It is your ''organized feedback effect'' that is questionable. If there is an 'organizing feedback activity', that activity is being performed not by autonomous mind but the brain.

    That is the point where you go wrong.

  8. Top | #108
    Shrunken Member WAB's Avatar
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    *deleted*
    If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to a library. - Frank Zappa

  9. Top | #109
    Shrunken Member WAB's Avatar
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    Mind- subjective
    Brain - objevtive

    Very simple.
    If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to a library. - Frank Zappa

  10. Top | #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    That it is not yet understood how a brain forms consciousness does not mean that it not clear that it takes the physical presence and electro-chemical activity of a brain to form and generate consciousness...the expression of which is directly related to the architecture and information state of that brain determining its attributes and abilities of mind/consciousness.
    Nowhere have I ever said the mind is not a product of brain activity.

    It is a product of activity that can have an organized feedback effect.

    You cannot claim that simple feedback is some miraculous impossibility.
    It is your ''organized feedback effect'' that is questionable. If there is an 'organizing feedback activity', that activity is being performed not by autonomous mind but the brain.

    That is the point where you go wrong.
    No. The organized feedback originates in the mind.

    A thought creates the desire to act and the mind orders the body into action. The mind can also decide to not order the action based on a second thought.

    Only a mind has awareness of thoughts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WAB View Post
    Mind- subjective
    Brain - objevtive

    Very simple.
    Yes. Two distinct entities.

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