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Thread: Not one Jot or Tittle

  1. Top | #11
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    It's not so much sounds as strokes of a chisel; a "jot" is a ἰῶτα, a single straight line, or the Hebrew letter "yod"; a "tittle" is a κεραία, or the single dot in any letter that has one.
    Yes, exactly. And that chisel making the strokes to sound out "jee-zuss" and the strokes to sound out "yesh-uah" are different. One may note the κεραία on the top of the j and the extra ἰῶτα on the y. Hence, the κεραίαs and the ἰῶταs have been changed.
    That seems a tad irrelevant, as the Scriptures to which Jesus is referring (the Hebrew Scriptures, ie., the only Scriptures that existed in his lifetime) did not mention his name, one way or another. Indeed, they inaccurately predicted that the Messiah would be named Immanuel.

  2. Top | #12
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    It's not so much sounds as strokes of a chisel; a "jot" is a ἰῶτα, a single straight line, or the Hebrew letter "yod"; a "tittle" is a κεραία, or the single dot in any letter that has one.
    Yes, exactly. And that chisel making the strokes to sound out "jee-zuss" and the strokes to sound out "yesh-uah" are different. One may note the κεραία on the top of the j and the extra ἰῶτα on the y. Hence, the κεραίαs and the ἰῶταs have been changed.
    That seems a tad irrelevant, as the Scriptures to which Jesus is referring (the Hebrew Scriptures, ie., the only Scriptures that existed in his lifetime) did not mention his name, one way or another. Indeed, they inaccurately predicted that the Messiah would be named Immanuel.
    Then why would yahweh say to not change anything if it's not a problem? And why would early religionists be so cavalier? It's strange. Extraneous non-active passages in the bible? Like junk DNA?

  3. Top | #13
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    The entirety of the New Testament is a violation of literalism, if seen from Jesus' point of view. He could have had no idea that a whole extra Bible would be written throughout the four centuries following his death, and this passage strongly suggests how he would have felt about it.

  4. Top | #14
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Im pretty sure Jesus knows how that whole "Word of God" thingy works.

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Im pretty sure Jesus knows how that whole "Word of God" thingy works.
    That’s not relevant to Politesse’s comment, though, since, as you know, the NT was conceived and written after the death of the alleged Jesus and he was completely uninvolved.

  6. Top | #16
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Im pretty sure Jesus knows how that whole "Word of God" thingy works.
    The question is not whether Jesus understood the divine Logos. The question is whether the whole crowd of people who have appointed themselves his scribes and viceroys also do.

    Jesus seems to have been literate, yet he never wrote a word of "new testimony". Why do you suppose that is?

  7. Top | #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Then why would yahweh say to not change anything if it's not a problem? And why would early religionists be so cavalier? It's strange. Extraneous non-active passages in the bible? Like junk DNA?
    If you had gone a little deeper you would see that it was all about not manipulating or changing the Laws e.g. as the Pharisees did. An example below which you are mistakenly highlighting, when it comes to alterations or changes:

    (if you can imagine variations, languages or translations)

    A. Don't go and take whats not yours.

    B. Don't steal from others.

    C. Stealing is no allowed.

    D. From others , you shall not steal.

    E. You are forbidden to steal, and so on.


    They are all (A to E) understood exactly the same way.

  8. Top | #18
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Then why would yahweh say to not change anything if it's not a problem? And why would early religionists be so cavalier? It's strange. Extraneous non-active passages in the bible? Like junk DNA?
    If you had gone a little deeper you would see that it was all about not manipulating or changing the Laws e.g. as the Pharisees did. An example below which you are mistakenly highlighting, when it comes to alterations or changes:

    (if you can imagine variations, languages or translations)

    A. Don't go and take whats not yours.

    B. Don't steal from others.

    C. Stealing is no allowed.

    D. From others , you shall not steal.

    E. You are forbidden to steal, and so on.


    They are all (A to E) understood exactly the same way.
    Oh, right. right. The laws!
    It's true, the quote does reference laws.

    They are very wise and comprehensive. Like the one about forcing rape victims to marry their rapist.

    And yet, my original comment still stands as an example of the strange beliefs. Don't change the laws even a little bit, but don't punish anyone for them, since daddy'll do that, but I'm not asking you to change anything about the laws, except the part where the law says what the punishment is, oh, and call me anything you want.

    It's still strange and bizarre.

    Remember that law that says, "Do not hold slaves!" and the one that says, "You shall not rape!" Well, at least we have the one that says don't pick up any sticks on Saturdays.

    It's still strange and bizarre.

  9. Top | #19
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Im pretty sure Jesus knows how that whole "Word of God" thingy works.
    The question is not whether Jesus understood the divine Logos.
    Oh good. Agreed. Phew.

    For a minute there I thought you were saying "He could have had no idea" how God breathes scripture into existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse
    The question is whether the whole crowd of people who have appointed themselves his scribes and viceroys also do.
    Yes, now THAT is an important question. And one that applies as much to Moses as it does to John or Luke or Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse
    Jesus seems to have been literate, yet he never wrote a word of "new testimony". Why do you suppose that is?
    Too busy? Didn't have a typewriter handy? Better things to do with His time? Trusted His disciples to do what He knew they were inevitably going to do?

    I guess I never really thought about why Jesus didn't pick up a pen and write...
    "Hi, I'm Jesus I was born a long time ago in Bethlehem and Here is my version of The New Testament"

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    I guess I never really thought about why Jesus didn't pick up a pen and write...
    "Hi, I'm Jesus I was born a long time ago in Bethlehem and Here is my version of The New Testament"
    Seriously. One would expect that an omniscient dude would have been able to see the need for that happening and taken care of it at least a couple of millenia before the question was first asked. Given that eternal damnation is the consequence of not accepting his message, the decision to leave the passing on of that message to second or third hand sources as opposed to penning it himself was a questionable one.

    Also, he didn't need to physically write it out on paper. He could have built a computer, typed it out and then altered reality to allow everyone in that day to be able to receive an email blast. That's some trivially simple shit.

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