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Thread: When did God create the Angels?

  1. Top | #21
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    To make the KJV of that passage (Psalms 104;4) even more confusing, the Torah version it was translated from reads;


    דעֹשֶׂ֣ה מַלְאָכָ֣יו רוּח֑וֹת מְ֜שָֽׁרֲתָ֗יו אֵ֣שׁ לֹהֵֽט: (He makes winds His messengers, burning fire His ministers.)
    The KJV translation of this is; "Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire."

  2. Top | #22
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post

    For a certain definition of "more detailed."
    Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
    It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

    I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.
    You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .
    No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.

  3. Top | #23
    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .
    No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.
    Christians say Jehovah was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This makes Jews roll their eyes.

  4. Top | #24
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post

    For a certain definition of "more detailed."
    Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
    It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

    I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.
    You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .
    No, I could not determine that. Because the Angels could have been created by a previous being. Or they could have been caused simultaneously to god. Or they could have "always existed" like God is supposed to have. "Heavens" are not angels, heaven is a place.

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .
    No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.
    Also to Rheas post above.

    There's tons of indications other than what I've previously mentioned e.g. "Sons" of God , There is only "one" God , There is "no other" but the "Father" in heaven etc.. to point out the few, off the top of my head. Angels have the image of God and man shall have the image of God. In "their" likeness shall man be.

  6. Top | #26
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    Interesting thought. In the OT heaven seems to be a diverse community of beings. Satan even rebelled. From that perspective it appears more like Greek mythology. Gods and lessor beings living in a community.

  7. Top | #27
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    Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

    It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.

  8. Top | #28
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

    It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.
    Who? It was the angles of interaction among all possible paths and leverage points that created God. Not angels. Angles.

    ANNNN GULLs.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

    It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.
    Who? It was the angles of interaction among all possible paths and leverage points that created God. Not angels. Angles.

    ANNNN GULLs.
    And angles were created by Gabriel and Michael when they first invented pool and wanted to have a way for the balls to bounce of the sides.

    It's angels all the way down.

  10. Top | #30
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    You just wanted to say balls.

    Lol. Steve Colbert said "and the magic 8ball says try again later" when I clicked back into FB from this thread (it paused the video when I opened this thread). Wait. You're a denizen of the net.


    Balls.

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