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Thread: When did God create the Angels?

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post

    The standard Creationist answer is that when Genesis says that God created the Heavens, it means the sky. In a scientific age, it means the entire visible universe. But Heaven heaven, the place where God lives, that's always been around.



    Decent question. There's a fundamental difference between Angels and Humans. Angels were not created "in God's image," however you interpret that phrase. The usual answer is that yes, angels have free will (otherwise none of them would have chosen to rebel) but they don't have 'souls,' whatever they are. And without souls, they don't qualify as brides, collective or otherwise. Why not? Ask John Milton.

    Well, can we show anywhere that it was actually Yahweh who created the angels?

    Maybe Yahweh is just an angel himself, and LUCIFER was actually the head honcho and Yahweh overthrew him, and maybe it was their mother who made all the angels and they forced her to eat rocks and die or something?



    And if so, why need the humans?
    In any story written by humans for humans, it only stands to reason that humans are going to be key players. Might as well ask why, in a world with Numenoreans, Elves, and Dwarves, Tolkien featured men so prominently in his mythology. It's because he knows who his audience is.
    Fair point.

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Genesis 6

    6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
    4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    ---

    This seems to indicate that the sons of God found the monkey girls sexy, and had the anatomy and DNA to breed with them.

    Genesis 3
    22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    These sons of God did not have immortality unless they ate of that special fruit from the tree of life.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Getting back to the OP.

    The creation date/time of the angels is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
    Most likely days are 1, 2 or 3 with 1 or 3 being the most popular(?).
    If on day 1 after the creation of light and the beginning of the physical universe.
    If on day 3 before the the foundations of the earth were laid as they are mentioned as witnessing that event.

    Psalms 104 is a more detailed account of the early days of creation. V4 tells of the creation of angels.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    Psalms 104 is a more detailed account of the early days of creation. V4 tells of the creation of angels.
    For a certain definition of "more detailed."

    Verse 4: Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire.
    I'll wager that biblical scholars don't agree on what that means. To me it sounds more poetic than explanatory. Even the mythical language of Genesis 1 carries more explanatory power.

    Incidentally, the very next verse reads:

    Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
    This verse is the foundation for the modern-day geocentrists' belief that in fact is is the Earth that is stationary, and that the sun, planets, and entire universe revolves around it. After all, it says so right there in the Bible, and they have gifs to prove it. Naturally, this theory isn't taken seriously by anyone who knows how telescopes and Foucalt Pendulums work, including Young-Earth Creationists.

    So when hard-core YEC Biblical Fundamentalists say that Psalm 104 can be taken way too literally, I would caution anyone pointing to verse 4 as some sort of biological treatise on the origin of angelic beings.

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    Do angels fart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Do angels fart?
    Where did you think their souls went?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post

    Psalms 104 is a more detailed account of the early days of creation. V4 tells of the creation of angels.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post

    For a certain definition of "more detailed."

    Verse 4: Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire.
    Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
    It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

    I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigers! View Post
    Getting back to the OP.

    The creation date/time of the angels is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
    question: Why do you supposed this was considered unimportant? I feel like an answer to whether the god of the bible actually created the angels is critical to understanding whether he is a true god and whether there was a true creation. Do you think biblical scholars don't find this important? Or are there lots of writings about it?


    Most likely days are 1, 2 or 3 with 1 or 3 being the most popular(?).
    What evidence or argument is used to determine this? What do the people who think this say is their reason?

    If on day 1 after the creation of light and the beginning of the physical universe.
    Again, curious about why they think this

    If on day 3 before the the foundations of the earth were laid as they are mentioned as witnessing that event.
    Again, curious about why they think this


    Since Angels are a hugely important part of the theology and make multiple appearances in the bible and are called as being experienced by humans all over today, including their identification as the current manifestation of dead humans, it seems like this is pretty critical. Is it just me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Do angels fart?
    Don't hold your breath ... if you're erm... expecting a serious answer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post

    For a certain definition of "more detailed."
    Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
    It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

    I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.
    You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

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