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Thread: No such thing as moral or immoral behavior. Only civilized and uncivilized behavior

  1. Top | #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post

    Legitimate is still a moral judgment. The only objective judgments are those involving what does or does not exist. Any positive or negative evaluation of things that exists or assertions that some ideal state is what ought to exist is a moral judgment.
    The definition you gave refers to only one type of society, and possibly only to a hypothetical idealized one. Are you claiming this is the only type of society? If not, then you must be claiming either that this is the preferred type of society or the only one worthy of being called "civilized", both of which are subjective moral judgments. The simple notion that civilization is a good thing is a moral judgment and there inherent moral judgments in the standard definitions of the word civilized:
    OED: polite, courteous, well mannered, good mannered, civil, decorous, gentlemanly, ladylike, gracious
    As I said:

    The Rationalist position: Civilization and civilized behavior are emergent properties that arises whenever you have a large number of objective human beings interacting with one another. A civilized society is a society governed by civilized laws. Civilized laws do not give any one person or any one group of people any special rights. All people have equal rights in a civilized society. Civilized behavior is behavior that respects civilized laws, rules, and expectations.

    (Equal rights. Equal protection. Equal pay for equal work. Equal punishment for equal crimes.)
    It is still subjective, if you are assuming that there is anything at all good, positive, or desirable about a "civilized" society, or "rights", or "respecting laws". And if you not assuming that there is anything positive or desirable about these things, then that would be in contradiction to how these terms are typically used.

  2. Top | #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    An objective person is a person with sufficient objectivity to understand that the universe does not revolve around their ego...
    Actually it does.

    My mind, for me, is the center of all things.

    Morality flows from compassion, from empathy, from "positive" emotions.

    I am kind to the stranger because it is positive for me to be so. I gain by being that way. I am less hollow and alone.

    Following arbitrary laws, like drug war laws, is based on fear and cowering to authority.

    It is something that makes one more hollow.

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