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Thread: God is not an Entity?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    I'm not really clear on what an "entity" is supposed to be or not be, here. Can someone clarify?

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    The entity...




    ???

  3. Top | #23
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    I'm not really clear on what an "entity" is supposed to be or not be, here. Can someone clarify?
    [Monty Python voice on]

    Mrs Thing: "Hello Mrs. Entity"
    Mrs Entity: "Hello Mrs. Thing"

    [Monty Python voice off]

    Entity, a thing or a substance. A substance is a thing that has essences. Essences make a thing a hamster, a table or a god, depending on it's essences. A thing or entity has a substance and essences. Essences may be general, substances that are general, hamster for example. And may denote a specific example, Sid the Vicious Hamster for example, that makes Sid a different hamster than other hamsters, entities or substances. Some things are actual or real, others like numbers are abstract entities.
    Cheerful Charlie

  4. Top | #24
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    I'm not really clear on what an "entity" is supposed to be or not be, here. Can someone clarify?
    [Monty Python voice on]

    Mrs Thing: "Hello Mrs. Entity"
    Mrs Entity: "Hello Mrs. Thing"

    [Monty Python voice off]

    Entity, a thing or a substance. A substance is a thing that has essences. Essences make a thing a hamster, a table or a god, depending on it's essences. A thing or entity has a substance and essences. Essences may be general, substances that are general, hamster for example. And may denote a specific example, Sid the Vicious Hamster for example, that makes Sid a different hamster than other hamsters, entities or substances. Some things are actual or real, others like numbers are abstract entities.
    In that case, I definitely think of God as an entity, though perhaps more like a number than a hamster.

  5. Top | #25
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    I'm not really clear on what an "entity" is supposed to be or not be, here. Can someone clarify?
    [Monty Python voice on]

    Mrs Thing: "Hello Mrs. Entity"
    Mrs Entity: "Hello Mrs. Thing"

    [Monty Python voice off]

    Entity, a thing or a substance. A substance is a thing that has essences. Essences make a thing a hamster, a table or a god, depending on it's essences. A thing or entity has a substance and essences. Essences may be general, substances that are general, hamster for example. And may denote a specific example, Sid the Vicious Hamster for example, that makes Sid a different hamster than other hamsters, entities or substances. Some things are actual or real, others like numbers are abstract entities.
    In that case, I definitely think of God as an entity, though perhaps more like a number than a hamster.

    Simplicity of God

    God's essences and God's substance are one and the same. That way, theologians do not have to explain what the metaphysical essences are and what metaphysical principal(s) combined these essences into one substance. That way they can claim there are no metaphysical things outside and beyond God. God is a special substance. A special kind of entity. One of the oldest Christian doctrines, predating Christianity, now held as a dogma by almost all Christian sects. In this manner, God is not like tables, clouds or hamsters. Or mere mortals. Some philosophers and theologians do not believe in simplicity of God, holding it is not coherent. But then have to contend with what is the substance of God. God's simplicity supposedly includes his aseity, his existence. Thus all existence is in principle caused by God. Giving rise to the doctrines of pre-suppositionalism and The Transcendental Argument For God, TAG. God is still an entity.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Thousands and thousands and thousands of words written about the doctrine of the nature of God. One of the thousands of websites where mainstream Christianity answers the theological question ronburgundy says we refuse to answer - what do you mean by God?
    That makes sense because everyone's god is different in every imaginable way.

    Your "nature of god" is like that piece of paper upon which is written out a googleplex, not enough room to fit it into the known universe.

  7. Top | #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Thousands and thousands and thousands of words written about the doctrine of the nature of God. One of the thousands of websites where mainstream Christianity answers the theological question ronburgundy says we refuse to answer - what do you mean by God?
    That makes sense because everyone's god is different in every imaginable way.

    Your "nature of god" is like that piece of paper upon which is written out a googleplex, not enough room to fit it into the known universe.
    But when the rubber actually meets the road, you discover that their tires are flat. Or that their car doesn't have any tires at all. Or wheels for that matter.

    If you have to define something as being beyond definition, there is no useful discussion to be had. Anything goes, and nothing goes. Now if a theist were to actually step up and define a god in terms of attributes that can be studied and quantified, that would be something. Like what is the quantum wave function(s) for God? How does God interact with the reality it exists in, and what are the properties of this reality? How does God defy the arrow of time (defy entropy)? How does God create universes? And so on. You can write volumes of fan fiction on what you think your God is, but until you are able to define this entity, your words are meaningless. I could write a five-volume epic on the nature of Bantu, the Supreme Cosmic Toad from whose divine flatulence this universe sprang, but it would still be worthless as a source of useful information.

  8. Top | #28
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    The big problem with debating God with theists on the internet is that God rests on claims that cannot be proven and may be fantasies. That there is a supernatural realm. That souls exist. That one can have a thinking personal being without matter. And then the problems start, free will and omniscience. Omnipotence, God's omnibenevolence and the problem of evil. And on and on it goes.
    Cheerful Charlie

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    The big problem with debating God with theists on the internet is that God rests on claims that cannot be proven and may be fantasies. That there is a supernatural realm. That souls exist. That one can have a thinking personal being without matter. And then the problems start, free will and omniscience. Omnipotence, God's omnibenevolence and the problem of evil. And on and on it goes.
    Theists solve such problems by making words mean whatever the believer needs them to mean, to get the wanted result: to protect himself from the possibility of disbelief.

  10. Top | #30
    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    The big problem with debating God with theists on the internet is that God rests on claims that cannot be proven and may be fantasies. That there is a supernatural realm. That souls exist. That one can have a thinking personal being without matter. And then the problems start, free will and omniscience. Omnipotence, God's omnibenevolence and the problem of evil. And on and on it goes.
    For some folks it feels really good to pretend they have a real god. How would I quantify what I'm doing with the millions I just pretended to win in the lottery? That's as real as any god gets.

    Atheism, on the other hand, is quite real, no pretending necessary.

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