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Thread: The Case For Christ - A defence of Lee Strobel's 1998 apologetic book

  1. Top | #261
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    Amazing how many books have been written and how much money made spinning and trying to explain the gospels which contaig a few sound bites of a character named Jesus Christ.There was a performance group called Firesign Theater in the 60s that made a few records.

    In one routine there is an exclamation, 'Give them a light and they will follow it anywhere!'.

    I am thinking of cats who seem obsessed with red laser pointers. They will follow the spot endlessly around the floor and wall.

  2. Top | #262
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    What I don’t understand is why isn’t there a blu-Ray DVD of the resurrection? This isn’t some simple historical event like the Battle of Zama. This is the most important historical event ever, and it’s being orchestrated by God himself to save mankind for at least the next 2000 years. So why didn’t he ensure that all of posterity would be able to confirm it? There should have been a Roman News Network to cover the event, with a live broadcast to everywhere from Rome to China, Australia and the Americas. If God wants me to believe in this resurrection, he’d have to come up with far more than just another ancient story of such. There are too many other similar stories for me to buy this crap without some damn serious evidence.

    SLD

  3. Top | #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    At no point have I claimed that every part of every Gospel is ALL direct, personal eyewitness testimony.
    So exactly what parts are and what is your evidence?

    I argue that the Gospel accounts are a collation of three types of testimony
    You are not using the word “testimony” properly. And “collation”? By whom?

    1. The writer's own personal recollection
    Of? GMark is generally estimated to have been written around 70 CE about events that supposedly happened forty years prior. Why in the world would the author wait some forty years to write down his personal recollections?

    2. The reporting of other's eyewitness testimony
    That’s called “hearsay,” which is NOT allowable “testimony” when you use that word properly and useless to anyone attempting to prove any claims contained within when you don’t.

    3. Divine revelation
    Again, which parts exactly were magically revealed and why the fuck wouldn’t the whole thing be if any parts were?

    But more importantly, why do YOU give a shit about any of this? It’s a complete waste of your time and only proves you to be doubting your own faith.

    And I will keep hammering the point that the pseudonymous authorship of 'Mark' actually prevents bible skeptics from claiming knowledge about the (non-eyewitness) identity of that same writer.

    You don't know who he was? Well, how do you know he wasn't a witness to ANY of the events in the book of Mark?
    You know that’s not how it works. Again, who are you trying to convince?

  4. Top | #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    What I don’t understand is why isn’t there a blu-Ray DVD of the resurrection?
    Or just, you know, magical “revelation” implanted into all of our skulls like a GPS chip at birth. Why even bother with any media at all and not just hard code it?

    Because god wants you to discover it.

    So why did he reveal anything to other people and not to all people?

    Ummm, because, uhhh, wait, Lee Strobel...ummm....er............uh............God wants us to learn how to read?

    And what NO ONE can explain to me is why Jesus supposedly resurrecting means anything at all. Evidently resurrection was a very common thing. As I pointed out previously (and Lion, of course, ignored), all twelve of the disciples supposedly had the power to ressurect anyone they wanted from the dead (yet, curiously, they apparently didn’t resurrect any of their loved ones or friends or fucking Moses or the like or Jesus or each other).

    There should have been hundreds of thousands if not millions of people resurrected from the dead over the centuries and all twelve disciples should be right now sitting on golden thrones in the global capital of Israel as the oldest resurrected divinely inspired beings.

    Yet, bupkiss.

  5. Top | #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    The text leaves it open to us to speculate.
    Well that was MONUMENTALLY STUPID of god, now wasn’ it.




    I think the dead saints were taken up to heaven much like the man on the cross next to Jesus who was told that "you will be with me in paradise."
    Except he wasn’t because Jesus sisn’t go there, he went to hell for a 36-hour (3 day!) cruise, then back to earth for a while.

    Or was he saying “with me in paradise,” ironically and he actually ook the criminal to hell with him?

    But I don't see the "bad writing" storyline continuity issue you're suggesting.
    You’d be okay with a story that interrupts the climactic tension to reveal the plot twist out of chronology?

    You and I have different litterary standards.

  6. Top | #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    What I don’t understand is why isn’t there a blu-Ray DVD of the resurrection? This isn’t some simple historical event like the Battle of Zama. This is the most important historical event ever, and it’s being orchestrated by God himself to save mankind for at least the next 2000 years. So why didn’t he ensure that all of posterity would be able to confirm it? There should have been a Roman News Network to cover the event, with a live broadcast to everywhere from Rome to China, Australia and the Americas. If God wants me to believe in this resurrection, he’d have to come up with far more than just another ancient story of such. There are too many other similar stories for me to buy this crap without some damn serious evidence.

    SLD
    Humans are pattern seekers. As such we will invent a reason that events occur. For some people the presence of invisible ghost creatures explains events to their satisfaction. It's a very emotionally satisfying though not so rational account of why things happen, and for many has been quite the profitable enterprise for millenia. It's also terribly easy compared to the alternative.

  7. Top | #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    The text leaves it open to us to speculate.

    I think the dead saints were taken up to heaven much like the man on the cross next to Jesus who was told that "you will be with me in paradise."

    But I don't see the "bad writing" storyline continuity issue you're suggesting.
    Wasn't the guy next to Jesus a convicted thief? Why'd he go to Heaven?
    And why would any of "the dead saints" need to be bodily resurrected before they were "taken up to heaven"?
    Weren't their souls already in heaven? And if not, does that mean they were somehow alive the whole time their bodies were dead and they were trapped inside rotting corpses for millennia until such time as Jesus came along or something?

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