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Thread: Suicide machines?

  1. Top | #21
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    High-G training -- existing human centrifuges are located in military bases and space research labs, and they are for training military pilots and astronauts. They can make enough acceleration to induce "g-loc", gravity loss of consciousness.

    Watching Jet Pilots Train To Withstand G-Forces Is Just Too Intense
    Learning Launchers: A Spin on Things -- Centrifuge | NASA
    The G Machine | History | Air & Space Magazine
    Centrifuge training | Vegitel -- a Russian one
    How about a ride in the world’s biggest centrifuge? | Astronaut Class of 2009
    NASA astronauts to under centrifuge training at Ohio base
    Buy NASA's Human Training Centrifuge And Pretend You're An Astronaut


    But I doubt that any of their operators would want to be associated with euthanasia by centrifuge.

  2. Top | #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Lack of oxygen does not cause immediate cellular death. Certainly not in organs other than brain.
    Cellular death happens when oxygen supply is restored. Brain is of course is more complicated but even there there are cases of people being revived after being drowned (in cold water) for 20 minutes without brain damage.
    Yes, the real damage is done on the restoration of oxygen. It doesn't really matter, though, once you're unconscious it doesn't matter the exact process.

    Note that the cold water (and, very occasionally, cold air) cases are a special situation, the oxygen demand is way down also. I've heard of surgeons deliberately stopping all blood flow for an hour and the patient made a full recovery. They were chilled way down for this. (This was a brain operation, they had no other option. Very high risk but not operating meant she wasn't going to be around for long.)

  3. Top | #23
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    If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder. Folks who make snuff films might be interested.

    Can you believe there's an audience for that stuff?

    Many jurisdictions say you only have the 'right' to die if you are sick.
    Hmmm. Expensive sick people being granted the 'right' to stop being a burden to society.
    Colour me cynical.

  4. Top | #24
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    I cannot imagine any ideology other than an indefensibly fascistic and authoritarian one, where it would be either illegal or immoral to end one's life. And if it is not, then helping a person to do so would not in general be either, and in fact could often be a highly moral and selfless act. OTOH, there are situations where suicide is an irrational, self-destructive, irreversible choice people make in temporary moments of distress. These might even comprise a majority of suicides, and probably of suicide "attempts".
    In these situations, it would be immoral to assist the person to execute such a decision. Whether it should be illegal is another more complicated matter. So, I think those who give such assistance have at least a moral obligation to ensure that the person they are assisting is not making a rash decision in response to some temporary event and has been given all other possible assistance to try and remedy the suffering that is prompting their suicidal desire.

    In this light, I am uneasy about something like a rollercoaster of death that would make the process seem not merely without suffering but actually fun, and thus might lower the threshold for such a decision, possibly with some thrill seeking fools riding it with the delusion that they will survive it.

  5. Top | #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    If you have the so-called 'right' to end your own life then you must also have the equivalent right to sell your own body parts to the highest bidder.
    Show your work.

    I have the right to give people legal advice. Goes with the whole First Amendment thingy. That doesn't mean I must also have the equivalent right to sell people legal advice. Goes with the whole "I don't believe that man's ever been to law school" thingy.

    Many jurisdictions say you only have the 'right' to die if you are sick.
    Hmmm. Expensive sick people being granted the 'right' to stop being a burden to society.
    Colour me cynical.
    Many religions think up spurious post hoc pseudo-secular "justifications" for maintaining their arbitrary religious prohibitions after "God said it; I believe it; if you dispute the point we'll execute you for blasphemy." runs out of persuasiveness. Color me cynical.

  6. Top | #26
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    Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".

  7. Top | #27
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

    Here in Wa state there is assisted suicide damping on what you are afflicted with.

    A few years back when I was in ICU with severe heart failure the cardiologists explained my condition, told me survival even with treatment was not certain, and if I wanted they would withhold treatment.

    I believe suicide is a right. There is a point beyond which quality of life over rides living. I an DNR and DNI. Do not resuscitate, do not intubate, and no heroic lifesaving measures. I will be getting a bracket that says DNI DNR. If my heart stops I am done. I have seen what the result's of strokes and heart attacks can be. If I ended up like that would use assisted suicide.

    A handgun is a machine, as is a noose. Whether you randomize when the machine functions or not is irrelevant.

    We execute people when we deem it is right, we kill in war because we deem it right. Suicide to me is no different. With all the killing that goes on in war that we glorify, it is hypocritical to say ending one's own life is immoral.

    Recent statistics around 20,000 people in USA suicide by gun every year.

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts?
    Because receiving money isn't an issue of bodily autonomy. (Typically. Of course there have been real-life situations where people were banned from receiving money as a method of controlling what they do with their bodies, e.g. Soviet-era "refuseniks". But "People can't buy your kidney." isn't in that category.)

    Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors
    Well, strictly, you'd have to ask somebody who's in favor of the "only if you are sick" rule. IMHO, philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to healthy people too.

    But if you want me to try to lay out other people's reasons for that position, I'll give it a go. To take it from their perspective, they're paternalistically deciding they know what's best for others and have the right to impose their will on another adult for his own good, i.e., they think a healthy person wanting to die is proof that he's mentally ill, incompetent to choose his own fate, and in need of intervention by kindly and wise strangers acting in loco parentis.

    To take it from my third-party perspective, they're still half in the grip of three thousand years of Judeo-Christian religious propaganda that left an indelible mark on our culture even after we collectively rejected the "morality-equals-God's-will" premise underlying that propaganda. In a word, they've been trained since childhood to be squicked by suicide. The suffering of a guy with cancer is emotionally powerful enough to overcome that squick; the suffering of a depressed person isn't.

    pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
    In the words of Dr. House, there's no such thing as dying with dignity.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
    Thank you for once again perfectly demonstrating why cults are so insidious and detrimental to humanity. I sincerely hope your death takes several years in a forgotten and run-down "home" and you experience nothing but agonizing pain that becomes a severe and devastating emotional and financial burden on your loved ones who will be forced to watch you deteriorate year after year after year into abuse-laden dementia until your brain is finally gone and you are reduced to little more than a machine-driven pulsating meat sack of pain and suffering. And then five years later you finally die. Praise the Lord! Amen!

  10. Top | #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Why would philosophical bodily autonomy arguments apply to suicide euthanasia but not selling (or renting) your body parts? Why would I have the right to die (sooner) if I'm terminally ill but not have the right to do so when I'm healthy and free from the stress and guilt of being a financial burden to all those social justice warriors pleading for my right to "die with dignity".
    My body parts are worth more than money, especially when it comes to such things as masturbation.
    Do human beings have free will? I can't decide.

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