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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    prophecy....

    Thinking about Biblical Prophecy.
    Supposedly, the Bible is full up of people speaking of Future Events with the power of the divine.

    Foretelling the Messiah, for one. Revelation, for another.
    Often told that we can trust the Truth of the Bible because the prophecies in it prove God was involved, because only He can see the future.

    Which makes me think of Noah's Flood.

    The purpose of the Flood was given in chapter 6.
    6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
    6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
    The effectiveness of the Flood was in chapter 8.
    8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth ; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
    Wasn't effective.
    God realized that if you have man, you're gonna have evil. It's just intrinsic.

    So all the death was without purpose. Didn't accomplish anything.

    You would think someone with the power to see the future would LOOK into the future at the beginning of every project, just to see how it'd turn out. Maybe alter the plan to make it successful, or abandon the plan if it won't be...

    How can I trust the predictions of someone who can't stop himself from making such a murderous mistake?

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    *Disclaimer - this is a discussion - started by an atheist - about God's motive for punishing evil. Any resemblance to 'preaching' in my replies is purely coincidental.


    I don't think The Flood was intended to take away man's ability to choose between good and evil. Where is that in the text?

    What the Flood did do is show that God has the universal ability and intent to punish unrepentant evil. We have been warned.


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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    According to Christian theology, original sin is responsible for man's evil behavior. Why then God allows moral evil, original sin to exist is a question no theologian has ever been able to explain. Some tell us it has to do with free will, but original sin destroys free will. As theology goes, none of this makes any sense at all. Not if as theologians claim, God is wise and intelligent beyond mere human abilities.

    And as for prophecies, the major prophets, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah gave us claimed prophecies that were to occur after the Jews returned to their homeland post-Babylonian captivity. None even came close to being true. And thus are studiously ignored by Christians.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Veteran Member funinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Thinking about Biblical Prophecy.
    Supposedly, the Bible is full up of people speaking of Future Events with the power of the divine.

    Foretelling the Messiah, for one. Revelation, for another.
    Often told that we can trust the Truth of the Bible because the prophecies in it prove God was involved, because only He can see the future.

    Which makes me think of Noah's Flood.
    Do not try and comprehend the Deluge, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there was no Deluge.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funinspace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Thinking about Biblical Prophecy.
    Supposedly, the Bible is full up of people speaking of Future Events with the power of the divine.

    Foretelling the Messiah, for one. Revelation, for another.
    Often told that we can trust the Truth of the Bible because the prophecies in it prove God was involved, because only He can see the future.

    Which makes me think of Noah's Flood.
    Do not try and comprehend the Deluge, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there was no Deluge.
    But it's part and parcel to the myth cycle.
    They sell the whole bible as revealed and relevant to my situation today.
    The omnipotent and omniscient god who has existed forever didn't take off for Vegas for a month and come back to find AsstGod bailing like mad. Same guy wasted all that time and those lives, but has A Plan for my immortal soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by funinspace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Thinking about Biblical Prophecy.
    Supposedly, the Bible is full up of people speaking of Future Events with the power of the divine.

    Foretelling the Messiah, for one. Revelation, for another.
    Often told that we can trust the Truth of the Bible because the prophecies in it prove God was involved, because only He can see the future.

    Which makes me think of Noah's Flood.
    Do not try and comprehend the Deluge, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there was no Deluge.
    As there were no prophecies. The character in the Bible called "God" is exactly as one would expect -- an all-too-human reflection of his creators. He changes his mind, moods, and violent outbursts as capriciously as an impulse-driven ape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    But it's part and parcel to the myth cycle.
    They sell the whole bible as revealed and relevant to my situation today.
    The omnipotent and omniscient god who has existed forever didn't take off for Vegas for a month and come back to find AsstGod bailing like mad. Same guy wasted all that time and those lives, but has A Plan for my immortal soul.
    It's hard to imagine a more horrific "worldview". One where nothing's predictable and there's a capricious God that makes and breaks promises. But, he's worshipful because he'll squish ya if you don't!

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    As to Jesus Christ fulfilling prophecies, I think that it was his biographers who made him seem to do so, though if there was a historical Jesus Christ, he may have tried to fulfill some prophecies with his actions.

    As to prophecy fulfillment, Jesus Christ was far from alone (List of Lord Raglan evaluations | Atheism | FANDOM powered by Wikia). Krishna, the Buddha, Zeus, Theseus, Perseus, Oedipus, Romulus, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, King Arthur, Anakin Skywalker, and Harry Potter all fulfilled prophecies.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    I don't think YHWH, in the Hebrew Scriptures at least, is presented as infallible; he changes his mind on many occasions. Prophecy, such as it is, seems more to me a matter of communicating with God as things stand at the moment than "telling the future". Like all forms of divination, it is limited by the imagination of the interpreter and the changeability of the world. While some may try to find in the Daniel or the Apocalypse of John some sort of year-by-year accounting of the future, I doubt very much that this was the intent of either book (or it would have just included years and names to make things clear). Rather, both are deeply symbolic works that could apply to a lot of different situations as needed. You don't get much more vague than Jesus' "there will be wars and rumors of wars". There are, indeed, many wars and rumors of wars at any moment in time since empires began to carpet the world in violence. His advice, essentially not to freak out but rather to focus on what is important regardless, is equally good advice during all of those wars. Does it really make the text more important to interpret it as some carnival fortune-tellers' trick?

    Before the customary yabbut: yes, I know a lot of Christians see and treat the book exactly that way. I think they are misguided.

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    From what I read it was common to create and spread a prophesy and the have somebody fulfill it.

    The Jews at the time were looking for a new king to restore Jews to power. I doubt many Jews under Ryman occupation wanted to hear about turning the other cheek. Or giving to Caesar what is Caesar's. In the context of the geopolitics of the day tmat makes JC sound like a Roman shill and apologist.

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