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Thread: Chaplains to be banned in ACT public schools

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Chaplains to be banned in ACT public schools

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...hools/10842950

    Finally some testicular fortitude in standing up to the Federal government's unconscionable placement of unqualified counsellors in schools on the basis of their devotion to unevidenced beliefs.

    Let's hope some of the states can grow a pair and take similar action to get rid of these parasites on the public purse, and replace them with qualified secular psychologists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...hools/10842950

    Finally some testicular fortitude in standing up to the Federal government's unconscionable placement of unqualified counsellors in schools on the basis of their devotion to unevidenced beliefs.

    Let's hope some of the states can grow a pair and take similar action to get rid of these parasites on the public purse, and replace them with qualified secular psychologists.
    And any such states' decisions as to whether a given secular psychologist is qualified will be based on devotion to evidenced beliefs, will they?

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    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    And any such states' decisions as to whether a given secular psychologist is qualified will be based on devotion to evidenced beliefs, will they?
    You must be joking, because that's a pretty stupid false dilemma.

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Yeah just what we need - more atheism in schools.

    Mental Illness Is Still On The Rise In Australian Youth, Study Shows

    "More Australian teenagers are in severe psychological distress than five years ago..."
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/20...-s_a_22034649/

    40 Percent Increase in Antidepressant Use

    "...a generation, more prone to self-harm and more likely to be prescribed psychotropic medication than any generation that came before them, said lead author Dr Rose Cairns at University of Sydney’s School of Pharmacy.

    "...huge increases in the number of children and adolescents who had been dispensed psychotropic medications, particularly antidepressants, "

    "Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants rose 40 per cent in five to 14-year-olds and 35 per cent in 15-19 year-olds between 2012 and 2016. Dispensing of antipsychotics and ADHD medications increased by 11 per cent and 14 per cent respectively among five to 19-year-olds."

    “We’re not the only ones seeing this, with similar problems documented in the USA and the UK, indicating this may be a global trend," Professor Buckley said."

    https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/ch...20-p50z15.html

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Yeah just what we need - more atheism in schools.

    Mental Illness Is Still On The Rise In Australian Youth, Study Shows

    "More Australian teenagers are in severe psychological distress than five years ago..."
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/20...-s_a_22034649/
    So you can see that the School Chaplaincy program has been completely ineffective, then?
    40 Percent Increase in Antidepressant Use

    "...a generation, more prone to self-harm and more likely to be prescribed psychotropic medication than any generation that came before them, said lead author Dr Rose Cairns at University of Sydney’s School of Pharmacy.

    "...huge increases in the number of children and adolescents who had been dispensed psychotropic medications, particularly antidepressants, "

    "Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants rose 40 per cent in five to 14-year-olds and 35 per cent in 15-19 year-olds between 2012 and 2016. Dispensing of antipsychotics and ADHD medications increased by 11 per cent and 14 per cent respectively among five to 19-year-olds."

    “We’re not the only ones seeing this, with similar problems documented in the USA and the UK, indicating this may be a global trend," Professor Buckley said."

    https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/ch...20-p50z15.html
    Well, we'd best throw modern medicine out the window, and go back to medieval superstition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    And any such states' decisions as to whether a given secular psychologist is qualified will be based on devotion to evidenced beliefs, will they?
    You must be joking, because that's a pretty stupid false dilemma.
    Not seeing where I put forward any dilemma at all, false or otherwise. I was just being snarky, because I am skeptical as to whether bringing in "qualified secular psychologists" instead of, say, leaving the vacated chaplaincy positions unfilled, will resolve the related problems of "parasites on the public purse" and "devotion to unevidenced beliefs". If there's one thing psychologists as a profession are noted for it's their scientific rigor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Yeah just what we need - more atheism in schools.

    Mental Illness Is Still On The Rise In Australian Youth, Study Shows

    "More Australian teenagers are in severe psychological distress than five years ago..."
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/20...-s_a_22034649/

    40 Percent Increase in Antidepressant Use

    "...a generation, more prone to self-harm and more likely to be prescribed psychotropic medication than any generation that came before them, said lead author Dr Rose Cairns at University of Sydney’s School of Pharmacy.

    "...huge increases in the number of children and adolescents who had been dispensed psychotropic medications, particularly antidepressants, "

    "Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants rose 40 per cent in five to 14-year-olds and 35 per cent in 15-19 year-olds between 2012 and 2016. Dispensing of antipsychotics and ADHD medications increased by 11 per cent and 14 per cent respectively among five to 19-year-olds."

    “We’re not the only ones seeing this, with similar problems documented in the USA and the UK, indicating this may be a global trend," Professor Buckley said."

    https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/ch...20-p50z15.html
    And what makes you conclude that this is due to atheism?

    The problem here is that being a religious figure doesn't make one a qualified counselor.

  8. Top | #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    And any such states' decisions as to whether a given secular psychologist is qualified will be based on devotion to evidenced beliefs, will they?
    You must be joking, because that's a pretty stupid false dilemma.
    Not seeing where I put forward any dilemma at all, false or otherwise. I was just being snarky, because I am skeptical as to whether bringing in "qualified secular psychologists" instead of, say, leaving the vacated chaplaincy positions unfilled, will resolve the related problems of "parasites on the public purse" and "devotion to unevidenced beliefs". If there's one thing psychologists as a profession are noted for it's their scientific rigor.
    While forms of clinical psychotherapy often suffer from a lack of scientific basis, very little if any of what school counselors do is clinical therapy. It is mostly just being a confidant for students who need someone to talk to and a giving students information about resources and options available to them. It is mostly just being an empathic human with common sense and knowledge of resources. It isn't that the Chaplins are not qualified as people to do it, but that they need to do it in a secular way without pushing a religious agenda. In fact, Chaplins will be allowed to remain in their positions, so long as they are not acting as "Chaplins" but just as student counselors whose religion plays no role in their duties.

    I realize that the "libertarian" position is to just let kids who need help suffer, have the futures ruined, possibly commit suicide, and just tell them "Maybe you should have chosen better parents." But those of us who think that empathy is important think that providing those kids with a basic resource to help them navigate those situations is a perfectly good use of the public purse (much like public education and fire departments).

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    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    And what makes you conclude that this is due to atheism?
    I don't conclude that it is.
    What I argue is that more atheism won't help.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    And what makes you conclude that this is due to atheism?
    I don't conclude that it is.
    What I argue is that more atheism won't help.
    You need to learn the difference between an argument and a mere assertion.

    Go ahead - make an argument. One that doesn't depend upon having an audience that already agrees with your conclusion. If you can.

    How does telling children that your unsupported beliefs are better than other people's unsupported beliefs help them in any way? How else does a religious chaplain differ from a secular counsellor, that could be of benefit to these children?

    How does a selection process that rejects counsellors on the sole basis of their lack of religious beliefs lead to a better pool of counsellors than one that ignores that criterion?

    If we assumed that both religious and non-religious applicants were exactly equally likely to be effective in the role, then excluding either group would mean fewer of the best applicants, and more of the mediocre ones, would be appointed - so it's not enough to show (if you can) that religious chaplains are no worse than secular ones. You need to show that they are demonstrably better.

    Can you do that?

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