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Thread: Chaplains to be banned in ACT public schools

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    ...It is mostly just being a confidant for students who need someone to talk to and a giving students information about resources and options available to them. ...

    I realize that the "libertarian" position is to just let kids who need help suffer, have the futures ruined, possibly commit suicide, and just tell them "Maybe you should have chosen better parents."
    Is it? I'm sure we have one somewhere around here who could tell us if that's true. Then again, why does their opinion matter to you and me?

    But those of us who think that empathy is important think that providing those kids with a basic resource to help them navigate those situations is a perfectly good use of the public purse (much like public education and fire departments).
    Sounds like the sort of assistance that could be provided perfectly well on an as-needed basis by a coach, or a secretary, or a vice principal, or a school nurse. Or, hmm, okay, I know I'm going out on a limb here, bear with me, maybe this is crazy talk and I need to go back on my meds, but, maybe, a teacher?

  2. Top | #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    And what makes you conclude that this is due to atheism?
    I don't conclude that it is.
    What I argue is that more atheism won't help.
    I haven't heard of atheism being a source of trouble. I have heard of religion being a source of mental problems many times.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomb#20 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    ...It is mostly just being a confidant for students who need someone to talk to and a giving students information about resources and options available to them. ...

    I realize that the "libertarian" position is to just let kids who need help suffer, have the futures ruined, possibly commit suicide, and just tell them "Maybe you should have chosen better parents."
    Is it? I'm sure we have one somewhere around here who could tell us if that's true. Then again, why does their opinion matter to you and me?
    It is true, by definition, of anyone who thinks this service should be gotten rid of for the sake of reducing tax burdens. It is relevant, b/c that is the position you stated, and reflects the standard position of most self-labeled "libertarians", who mistake their greed-based desire to eliminate government services to those in need for a principled concern about liberty.

    But those of us who think that empathy is important think that providing those kids with a basic resource to help them navigate those situations is a perfectly good use of the public purse (much like public education and fire departments).
    Sounds like the sort of assistance that could be provided perfectly well on an as-needed basis by a coach, or a secretary, or a vice principal, or a school nurse. Or, hmm, okay, I know I'm going out on a limb here, bear with me, maybe this is crazy talk and I need to go back on my meds, but, maybe, a teacher?
    No, most of those people would not be prepared to perform such services outside of their job description. It requires being consistently up to date on the latest information and relevant regulations that are related to any one of countless issues that a student needs help with. IOW, it still requires in depth training and continual effort to keep up to date, even though it isn't dependent on applying scientifically validated therapies. The role of a History teacher is to teach kids history. Most teachers already have 12 hour days, so exactly when are they going to have time to also keep their counseling knowledge updated, let alone find time in the day to provide that counseling? And should the teacher just be pulled out their class for a half hour to help a student under emotional distress, or should the crying kid just be locked in a room somewhere until a teacher has a free period? Either way, you'd have to pay the teachers more for their extra duties, so you wouldn't save anything.

    Plus, not everyone is cut out to be able to deal with other's personal emotional issues. It doesn't require scientific rigor, but it does require a particular disposition and motivation that is not the same as what is required to be a teacher. Demanding that teachers have these added expected duties would shrink the already too small pool of applicants and result in teachers who are even less capable in their teaching duties than currently.

  4. Top | #14
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    It does not sound like Chaplains are being banned... just that specific credentials are required. In other words, having the credential of being a chaplain does not eliminate the possibility that the same person is qualified to be a counselor for school children by having a degree in psychology, or whatever.

  5. Top | #15
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    Deut. 21:18-21:
    "If you have a mule-headed son who will not obey his parents, no matter how much they punish him, then they shall drag him before the city elders and say, "This son of ours is a rebel and a lout and doesn't listen to us. He is a thoroughly worthless drunk." Then the men of the city shall stone him to death." (Snark Institute Translation)
    'Cause young-uns have got-ta be learned!!!!

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