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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    Human dignity governed by

    Is human dignity governed by the adherence to a regiment of morale standards or is it through respect for the sovereignty of an individuals existence?
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Either way autonomy of action is assumed.

    The only way to have dignity is to have autonomy of action and belief.

    Forced action or forced belief is to take dignity out of the picture, as Skinner said.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Is human dignity governed by the adherence to a regiment of morale standards or is it through respect for the sovereignty of an individuals existence?
    Humans aren't dignified; We are ludicrous.

    We deserve respect only insofar as we have earned it by respecting others. Moral standards might help; The concept of individual sovereignty is even more ludicrous than the humans who claim it as a basis for their demands to be respected.

    Humans are a social species. We don't have sovereignty as individuals, and it is crazy to claim that we do (or should)

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Is human dignity governed by the adherence to a regiment of morale standards or is it through respect for the sovereignty of an individuals existence?
    Dignity? Isn't that what one presumes for oneself vis a vis others. Me and you - me versus you range of tolerance?

    Unlike bilby I believe one can understand oneself as unique and in charge, sovereign, and in your context, believe others are also thus.

    It is my view morality is a social attribute. One can respect sovereignty, independence and control of oneself, in others.

    However all and none of the above gets one to human dignity. Dignity is something one appreciates, feels for, sense, attributes in others. Consequently one may even imagine that aura in oneself falsely. However what is sensed is not dignity, It's an imagined conceit. When experienced it comes in the form of superior status, a basis for tribe and race identity socially.

    Untermenche, as usual, is trying to change the subject.

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    If I say autonomy is essential to dignity have I changed the subject?

    Is talking about the subject in ways that make you uncomfortable changing it?

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If I say autonomy is essential to dignity have I changed the subject?

    Is talking about the subject in ways that make you uncomfortable changing it?
    No. and No.

    Dignity may rise as result of habit and that would make some uncomfortable.

    Still even this latter is subject changing.

    The question is simple ans should be answered directly.

    How is dignity governed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    If I say autonomy is essential to dignity have I changed the subject?

    Is talking about the subject in ways that make you uncomfortable changing it?
    No. and No.

    Dignity may rise as result of habit and that would make some uncomfortable.

    Still even this latter is subject changing.

    The question is simple ans should be answered directly.

    How is dignity governed?
    Defining terms is never changing the subject as squishy unformed undisciplined minds may think.

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    -nm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Is human dignity governed by the adherence to a regiment of morale standards or is it through respect for the sovereignty of an individuals existence?
    Humans aren't dignified; We are ludicrous.

    We deserve respect only insofar as we have earned it by respecting others. Moral standards might help; The concept of individual sovereignty is even more ludicrous than the humans who claim it as a basis for their demands to be respected.

    Humans are a social species. We don't have sovereignty as individuals, and it is crazy to claim that we do (or should)
    This post is one big false dichotomy. The social nature of humans is in no way incompatible with the idea that each person should allowed ultimate authority/power/decision over their own physical person.

    In fact, without this concept there no basic for any kind of ethics or morals other than the completely arbitrary decree of some unquestionable authority.

    The very notion of "harm" rests upon the assumption that the person being "harmed" does like prefer and consent to the effects the action has upon them.

    We can and should have ethics that are not merely based in arbitrary authority, thus we can and should recognize individual sovereignty, with the logically imposed internal limit being that if a person's actions infringe upon the sovereignty of another that this person losese their right to control their own actions (e.g., they go to jail).

    What this means for social interactions is simply that they must be negotiated and consensual rather than enacted via force.

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Is human dignity governed by the adherence to a regiment of morale standards or is it through respect for the sovereignty of an individuals existence?
    Humans aren't dignified; We are ludicrous.

    We deserve respect only insofar as we have earned it by respecting others. Moral standards might help; The concept of individual sovereignty is even more ludicrous than the humans who claim it as a basis for their demands to be respected.

    Humans are a social species. We don't have sovereignty as individuals, and it is crazy to claim that we do (or should)
    This post is one big false dichotomy. The social nature of humans is in no way incompatible with the idea that each person should allowed ultimate authority/power/decision over their own physical person.

    In fact, without this concept there no basic for any kind of ethics or morals other than the completely arbitrary decree of some unquestionable authority.

    The very notion of "harm" rests upon the assumption that the person being "harmed" does like prefer and consent to the effects the action has upon them.

    We can and should have ethics that are not merely based in arbitrary authority, thus we can and should recognize individual sovereignty, with the logically imposed internal limit being that if a person's actions infringe upon the sovereignty of another that this person losese their right to control their own actions (e.g., they go to jail).

    What this means for social interactions is simply that they must be negotiated and consensual rather than enacted via force.

    Where did you get any of that from the op?
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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