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Thread: How to reduce / defeat racism?

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Teach people about cognitive biases. Teach people how to spot fake news. Racism is just the result of faulty deduction. That's a fixable problem.
    How exactly do you do that in a way that works? Have you visited the US, GB or let's say Brazil, lately?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Teach people about cognitive biases. Teach people how to spot fake news. Racism is just the result of faulty deduction. That's a fixable problem.
    Not faulty deduction. Lack of deduction.

    Quite frankly, proposing that we fix the deductive capabilities of people at large as any sort of real solution is ... just not realistic to me in the least.

    People rarely use deduction in their day-to-day lives, unless they are studying symbolic logic or something. People are apes that use emotive reasoning, particularly in their social interactions, constantly. And they are very good at it, but yes, will fall for their cognitive biases, even when they are aware of them.

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    Contributor repoman's Avatar
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    If it really comes to serious, extreme violence that is group against group (religion, race, political affiliation) at that point you either get the hell out or join in the violence for self preservation.

    A time machine and a video camera would show a lot of our normally peaceful ancestors doing just that as somehow society became pressure cookers at various, sporadic times.

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Teach people about cognitive biases. Teach people how to spot fake news. Racism is just the result of faulty deduction. That's a fixable problem.
    How exactly do you do that in a way that works? Have you visited the US, GB or let's say Brazil, lately?
    I once met a German who was rude. All Germans are rude. That's the kind of logic behind racism. It's also nothing wrong with that kind of deduction. We have to do it to function in this world. People in fancy clothes are more likely to have power. Who is the most likely person to be the boss in this room? It's the same kind of logic. The only reason race is such a big thing is because skin colour is the most glaringly obvious trait in humans.

    All inferences exist on a continuum. Racism belong on this continuum.

    Here's an example of what I mean. Poverty and violent crime are linked. Black people are more likely to be poor. It's rational to be more worried about being violently attacked by a black person than a white person. That's actually logically valid. The problem with it of course is that if you're a person worth robbing for a poor person, chances are pretty slim that you'll be in environments where poor people can rob you. So the black people you'll be worrying about are most likely not poor and therefore harmless, and that fear is misplaced. This can all be taught. It's simply a question of education. But no, we'll never end racism. That's a pipe dream. But we can all do our part in educating ourselves and those around us. Just by thinking before talking.

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    Veteran Member Tigers!'s Avatar
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    Whenever I see racism I remind the loud mouth that
    1. You and they bleed the same colour
    2. You both put your pants on one leg at a time.

    They are nothing spectacularly different to the one whom they abuse.
    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Here's an example of what I mean. Poverty and violent crime are linked. Black people are more likely to be poor. It's rational to be more worried about being violently attacked by a black person than a white person. That's actually logically valid. The problem with it of course is that if you're a person worth robbing for a poor person, chances are pretty slim that you'll be in environments where poor people can rob you. So the black people you'll be worrying about are most likely not poor and therefore harmless, and that fear is misplaced. This can all be taught. It's simply a question of education. But no, we'll never end racism. That's a pipe dream. But we can all do our part in educating ourselves and those around us. Just by thinking before talking.
    Racism is a weird thing but I'm not sure what you described is racism per se as there's a certain logic/rationale to that situation. When I think of racism, I think of irrational behavior like not giving a job to someone because of their race, i.e. they are a color you don't like or they don't want a certain person to wait on their table or won't go watch a movie because the lead actor is not the right color or being rude and obnoxious to someone because you think your race is the superior race and you can look down on the other person as being inferior.

  7. Top | #17
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Here's an example of what I mean. Poverty and violent crime are linked. Black people are more likely to be poor. It's rational to be more worried about being violently attacked by a black person than a white person. That's actually logically valid. The problem with it of course is that if you're a person worth robbing for a poor person, chances are pretty slim that you'll be in environments where poor people can rob you. So the black people you'll be worrying about are most likely not poor and therefore harmless, and that fear is misplaced. This can all be taught. It's simply a question of education. But no, we'll never end racism. That's a pipe dream. But we can all do our part in educating ourselves and those around us. Just by thinking before talking.
    Racism is a weird thing but I'm not sure what you described is racism per se as there's a certain logic/rationale to that situation. When I think of racism, I think of irrational behavior like not giving a job to someone because of their race, i.e. they are a color you don't like or they don't want a certain person to wait on their table or won't go watch a movie because the lead actor is not the right color or being rude and obnoxious to someone because you think your race is the superior race and you can look down on the other person as being inferior.
    While this undoubtedly exists, I doubt this is what causes the biggest problems. The biggest problems I think is what's called "structural racism". That's people who think and say they're not racist, but by analysing their behaviour clearly are.

    For example. I might avoid hiring a black person even though I'm not racist. I'm worried about that other people may be racist, and that might harm my business, so I stick to hiring white people. I'd never consciously think this, but I will subconsciously judge non-whites more.

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    Exposure is what can defeat racism. It's not guaranteed, and sometimes backfires into culture clash, but generally, being exposed to other people who are different, other ways of thinking, other ways of living, etc., is what has the power to open the narrow view of fear of Other.

    The internet is sometimes a source of this sort of softening exposure, but for the most part seems to cultivate the opposite, a reinforcement of the prejudice., because the virtual nature has the effect of distancing a person from what they're scared of, while at the same time, bringing that feared thing closer in terms of messages and imagery, igniting animal brain to react.

    Y'all should watch Derren Brown's video "Sacrifice," in which he uses in-person exposure (and some other things) to turn a violent racist into a man who would sacrifice his own life to save a Mexican immigrant coming to the U.S. illegally.
    The Authoritarians

    GOP and Trump supporters will not be able to say they didn't know. Vote in numbers too big to manipulate.

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
    Here's an example of what I mean. Poverty and violent crime are linked. Black people are more likely to be poor. It's rational to be more worried about being violently attacked by a black person than a white person. That's actually logically valid. The problem with it of course is that if you're a person worth robbing for a poor person, chances are pretty slim that you'll be in environments where poor people can rob you. So the black people you'll be worrying about are most likely not poor and therefore harmless, and that fear is misplaced. This can all be taught. It's simply a question of education. But no, we'll never end racism. That's a pipe dream. But we can all do our part in educating ourselves and those around us. Just by thinking before talking.
    Racism is a weird thing but I'm not sure what you described is racism per se as there's a certain logic/rationale to that situation. When I think of racism, I think of irrational behavior like not giving a job to someone because of their race, i.e. they are a color you don't like or they don't want a certain person to wait on their table or won't go watch a movie because the lead actor is not the right color or being rude and obnoxious to someone because you think your race is the superior race and you can look down on the other person as being inferior.
    While this undoubtedly exists, I doubt this is what causes the biggest problems. The biggest problems I think is what's called "structural racism". That's people who think and say they're not racist, but by analysing their behaviour clearly are.

    For example. I might avoid hiring a black person even though I'm not racist. I'm worried about that other people may be racist, and that might harm my business, so I stick to hiring white people. I'd never consciously think this, but I will subconsciously judge non-whites more.
    I don't see this as being overtly racist since you ascribe it as being subconscious and also there is another logical/rationale factor at play. i.e. how does this particular hiring affect my business and there may be other factors at play.

    When I think of racist problems, I think of things like "hate crimes", like going up to a black person, screaming "nigger" in their face and then punching them in the mouth for no reason other than they are black or making your black neighbor's life a misery because you just don't like black folks or other irrational stuff. I don't get too worked up about the navel gazing subconscious prejudice/bias background noise. But this appears to be what most people want to discuss. Making the whole thing a minefield and people afraid of being called a racist.

  10. Top | #20
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post

    While this undoubtedly exists, I doubt this is what causes the biggest problems. The biggest problems I think is what's called "structural racism". That's people who think and say they're not racist, but by analysing their behaviour clearly are.

    For example. I might avoid hiring a black person even though I'm not racist. I'm worried about that other people may be racist, and that might harm my business, so I stick to hiring white people. I'd never consciously think this, but I will subconsciously judge non-whites more.
    I don't see this as being overtly racist since you ascribe it as being subconscious and also there is another logical/rationale factor at play. i.e. how does this particular hiring affect my business and there may be other factors at play.

    When I think of racist problems, I think of things like "hate crimes", like going up to a black person, screaming "nigger" in their face and then punching them in the mouth for no reason other than they are black or making your black neighbor's life a misery because you just don't like black folks or other irrational stuff. I don't get too worked up about the navel gazing subconscious prejudice/bias background noise. But this appears to be what most people want to discuss. Making the whole thing a minefield and people afraid of being called a racist.
    What do you think hurts a black person more, being called "nigger" or not getting hired for a job because they're black.

    This stuff is measurable. We can measure the effects of the subconscious on populations. So it's not woo

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