Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 51 to 59 of 59

Thread: The Garden Of Eden

  1. Top | #51
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    15,794
    Archived
    42,293
    Total Posts
    58,087
    Rep Power
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Gee, if the Israelites never left Egypt and never wandered in the desert for forty years looking for a homeland, does that mean nobody invaded Canaan?

    Coz a lot of anti-theist counter-apologists use the slaughter of the Canaanites as an example of mean God's nastiness.
    Well, we also use his murder of a whole bunch of Egyptian children as an example of that and we also use his genocide of pretty much the entire human race as an example of that. We do so with the understanding that neither of those events actually happened, but that doesn’t prevent our saying that a fictional character who is written to have done these things is a fictional character who was written as a nasty asshole.

  2. Top | #52
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    3,974
    Rep Power
    9
    Lion is probably getting desperate.

    It is clear from the video in general ancient cultures all had mythical other places of one kind or another. Imagined places where they came from.

    Given our natural human imaginination it uis not surprising, especily lacking our modern scince.

    Unless you want to refute generics, we all trace back to Africa. The spread of humans in different geographical paths has been traced.

    If their is a biblical garden and an Adam and Eve it would have been Africa and they would have been dark skinned not white blonde blue eyed.

    Looking at a wall map of the region if Moses and company waded for 40 years they would have to go in circles.

  3. Top | #53
    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    MN, US
    Posts
    2,732
    Archived
    8,446
    Total Posts
    11,178
    Rep Power
    64
    Gee, if the Israelites never left Egypt and never wandered in the desert for forty years looking for a homeland, does that mean nobody invaded Canaan?

    Coz a lot of anti-theist counter-apologists use the slaughter of the Canaanites as an example of mean God's nastiness.
    Sure, just like I use Grand Moff Tarkin's destruction of Alderaan as an example of his nastiness. Your complaint would only be valid if the invasion was false and the God were real. We don't think that, and neither do you. So stop wasting your time.

    In all seriousness, just because the Hebrews never invaded Canaan, doesn't mean that NOBODY invaded it. The records (real records) show Hittites, Mitannians, Egyptians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks, etc invading it. Plenty of real chaos and war to base their stories on.

  4. Top | #54
    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    4,256
    Archived
    3,884
    Total Posts
    8,140
    Rep Power
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Gee, if the Israelites never left Egypt and never wandered in the desert for forty years looking for a homeland, does that mean nobody invaded Canaan?

    Coz a lot of anti-theist counter-apologists use the slaughter of the Canaanites as an example of mean God's nastiness.
    Yep. Modern Near Eastern archaeology has debunked the Exodus. No Egyptian captivity. No exodus. No wandering in the wilderness 40 years. No bloody invasion of Canaan. And that means, god on the mountain with Moses was a bullshit tall tale also. God then never commanded murders, massacres and genocides, or committed them as per killing all the first born of Egypt. Which means, if there is indeed really a God, a God that is good and kind, the Bible slanders God's character and smears God's good name. So for thinking people who love God, the Bible needs to be abandoned.

    But, we have the supposed nature of God as found in Paul's theology. Original sin. Predestination. Creating some elect and others damned. hardening hearts of the Jews to not believe in Jesus. God is not good despite specific claims God is merciful, just and compassionate. You know my drill by now. Or we can just set the entire NT aside as bullshit by know nothings that paint God as a evil buffoon with an anger management problem. or maybe, the entire NT especially Paul is likewise bullshit.

    Now we start with the world around us as we see it. What does that tell us about God if there is a God who created everything? The Holocaust, Stalin, Mao, Idi Amin, today's extremist Jihadis. God doesn't care about us. he makes no appearances, offers no help, does not retrain the moral evil of the world.

    Savage microbes, cholera etc. Viruses Protozoan diseases such as brain eating amoebas. Diseases causing germs. Horrific and brutal parasites, Guinea worms, river blindness, screw worms. is this the work of a good God or the result of blind and opportunistic nature? Once we abandon the God of Bible and Quran et al, and consider the God of the deist and philosophers, what does nature tell us about the nature of any possible God? I don't know about anybody else here but the whole God thing doesn't work for me.
    Cheerful Charlie

  5. Top | #55
    Raspberry bilby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    The Sunshine State: The one with Crocs, not Gators
    Posts
    19,942
    Archived
    10,477
    Total Posts
    30,419
    Rep Power
    77
    ..
    Last edited by bilby; 03-15-2019 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Never mind. Sarpedon already said it better.

  6. Top | #56
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    7,686
    Archived
    5,746
    Total Posts
    13,432
    Rep Power
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC
    The bible 600BC ? LOL

    Solomon pre-dates Ptolemy
    Samuel pre-dates Solomon
    Moses pre-dates Samuel
    Abraham pre-dates Moses
    Job pre-dates Abraham.
    ...and the book of Job dates to Mesopotamian / Akkadian / Egyptian Middle Kingdom

    Noah pre-dates everyone. So the claim that Noah is a 6th century BC plagiarism is simply false.
    Oh wow, does this mean you are actually ready to give me the dates for biblical events I keep asking for? If you know that Solomon predates Ptolemy (how?) then maybe you can say which Pharaoh it was who Moses drowned in the Red Sea?
    Heck, Lion IRC couldn't give you a time when Hebrews were enslaved by the Egyptians... having never actually been enslaved in Egypt.
    I think there were plenty of Caananite slaves in Egypt. Egypt fought the Hitites quite a bit. Caanan is the doormat either of them needs to cross to fight. They would have enslaved plenty of Caananites as an aftermath of those battles. But there was no Jewish identity at that point. Caanan were just a collection of city states and warring tribes. The Jewish identity sprung up much later, long after these events.

  7. Top | #57
    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    4,256
    Archived
    3,884
    Total Posts
    8,140
    Rep Power
    55
    People in that day and age usually had theophoric names. Names that refered to their gods and helped track ancient people's origins. Archaeology has long known this and has used this phenomena to examine the status of foreigners in ancient Egypt. If there were huge masses of Israelites in Egypt, we would expect that theophoric names of these people would be found fairly readily. The Egyptologists find - no such thing. The Israelites allegedly started out with 75 people in Egypt and left in huge masses after 430 years in Egypt. We would then expect early Israelite languages to be rather Egyptianized with lots of loan words and Egyptian syntax and grammar. No such thing. No Egyptian influences such as in pottery styles. The early Israelites were typical Canaanites.
    Cheerful Charlie

  8. Top | #58
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Port Clinton, Ohio
    Posts
    1,789
    Archived
    591
    Total Posts
    2,380
    Rep Power
    58
    I have read the Bedpost Rapunzelists ad nauseam (The Cross and the Bedpost by Rick Warren and Joyce Meyer's folksy Get You a Christian Feller with a Mighty Bedpost) and they make specious arguments. There is no mention of a bedpost in the earliest texts we have -- therefore, they are writing the Rapunzel narrative they wish to have.

  9. Top | #59
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    3,974
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    I have read the Bedpost Rapunzelists ad nauseam (The Cross and the Bedpost by Rick Warren and Joyce Meyer's folksy Get You a Christian Feller with a Mighty Bedpost) and they make specious arguments. There is no mention of a bedpost in the earliest texts we have -- therefore, they are writing the Rapunzel narrative they wish to have.
    It doesn't say she didn't use a bedpost. She must have had a bed up there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •