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Thread: What would the world look like If Germany would have won WWI?

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    What would the world look like If Germany would have won WWI?

    (1) Would there have been a European union long before It did in the present timeline and doing so provide a countermeasure against America as our economy became better

    (2) Would America become industrialized as quickly as it did in response to WWII and not have had to help Europe rebuild if WWII had never happened?

    (3) Would the Ottoman Empire had fallen in the way it did and allowed the France and Britten to carve up the middle East in their own fashion?

    (4) Would WWII ever have happened and with the atrocities of the Nazis?

    (5) Would the UN had have been created and in being not doing so, Would Palestine have been carved up to create the state of Israel?

    (6) Would America have become the superpower it is now if Europe had not devastated itself in WWII and would nuclear power have seen the light of day in a devastating bomb?

    (7) Would a united Europe, not engaged in their own war and an America set back and watched Japanese aggression in China and if not would China have become communist?

    (8) Would Russia have grown into a super power if they hadn't have had to fight Germany during WWII and not have had Eastern Europe as the spoils of war
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic misses. They were working on ICBMs to hit the YSA.

    Heisenberg was working on the German atomic program but post war it was found they were far behind the USA. They would have gotten it eventually.

    After that world domination.

    It would be genocide in Europe beyond the death camps. The plan was always to depopulate areas for expansion of German population. Ukraine initially treated the Germans as liberators from Russia.

    The original VW Bug was meant to be cheap transportation on a new highway system.

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic misses. They were working on ICBMs to hit the YSA.

    Heisenberg was working on the German atomic program but post war it was found they were far behind the USA. They would have gotten it eventually.

    After that world domination.

    It would be genocide in Europe beyond the death camps. The plan was always to depopulate areas for expansion of German population. Ukraine initially treated the Germans as liberators from Russia.

    The original VW Bug was meant to be cheap transportation on a new highway system.
    All of your replies are post WWII. The thread is about the first world war, not the second.
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Are we talking Germany succeeding with the Schlieffen Plan in 1914; Or winning after years of attrition, say in 1919 or 1920? Do the US get involved? What form does the German victory take - an armistice with France and England? Occupation of France, or part of France? Do they defeat Russia before the revolution? Do the Bolsheviks come to power in Russia at all? Does Germany support the white russians against the reds?

    What about Austria-Hungary? Do they win too? Do the Ottomans?

    The question as asked doesn't have enough detail to give a sensible answer given the vast number of variables.

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Are we talking Germany succeeding with the Schlieffen Plan in 1914; Or winning after years of attrition, say in 1919 or 1920? Do the US get involved? What form does the German victory take - an armistice with France and England? Occupation of France, or part of France? Do they defeat Russia before the revolution? Do the Bolsheviks come to power in Russia at all? Does Germany support the white russians against the reds?

    What about Austria-Hungary? Do they win too? Do the Ottomans?

    The question as asked doesn't have enough detail to give a sensible answer given the vast number of variables.
    You are reading into this far more than you should. It would stand that if Germany would have won World War I they would have set the details of that victory and none of those allied against her would have won any concessions. Why would you have to know if Austria-hungry or the ottoman empire had won if Germany were to have won, since if they would have dropped out of that war anything they had given up would have been taken back by Germany when she won. America is inconsequential. She did not get anything for her part in the war except the experience of fighting it. I don't think.
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Are we talking Germany succeeding with the Schlieffen Plan in 1914; Or winning after years of attrition, say in 1919 or 1920? Do the US get involved? What form does the German victory take - an armistice with France and England? Occupation of France, or part of France? Do they defeat Russia before the revolution? Do the Bolsheviks come to power in Russia at all? Does Germany support the white russians against the reds?

    What about Austria-Hungary? Do they win too? Do the Ottomans?

    The question as asked doesn't have enough detail to give a sensible answer given the vast number of variables.
    You are reading into this far more than you should. It would stand that if Germany would have won World War I they would have set the details of that victory and none of those allied against her would have won any concessions. Why would you have to know if Austria-hungry or the ottoman empire had won if Germany were to have won, since if they would have dropped out of that war anything they had given up would have been taken back by Germany when she won. America is inconsequential. She did not get anything for her part in the war except the experience of fighting it. I don't think.
    America got taken seriously on the world stage for the first time. She also almost certainly was the source of the influenza pandemic of 1918-20, and that pandemic had major impacts on Europe.

    A quick victory in 1914 would have found both victors and vanquished in a VERY different mood regarding both war in general, and the behaviour of each other in the war, as compared to their attitudes after years of trench warfare.

    I honestly can't see how the result of a German victory in 1914 could have even vaguely similar results to a German victory in 1918 or later.

    Although either way, WWII would surely not occur (in any recognisable form) if Germany wasn't defeated in the Great War.

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    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic misses. They were working on ICBMs to hit the YSA.

    Heisenberg was working on the German atomic program but post war it was found they were far behind the USA. They would have gotten it eventually.

    After that world domination.

    It would be genocide in Europe beyond the death camps. The plan was always to depopulate areas for expansion of German population. Ukraine initially treated the Germans as liberators from Russia.

    The original VW Bug was meant to be cheap transportation on a new highway system.
    All of your replies are post WWII. The thread is about the first world war, not the second.
    My mistake. If the Germans had won until an eventual WWII that swept away the aristocratic systems the chronic quest for hegemony and empire would continue.

    As weans technology advanced eventually there would have been an apocalyptic scale conflict. Germany and neighbors were a tangled mess of political, aristocratic, and military factions until Hitler brutally suppressed it all.

    Up until WWII the Europeans in a sense enjoyed war. As it became clear war was coming there were parades. Men put on old uniforms and medals on the eve of WWI. That mentality would have persisted.

    People thought there would be battles, a treaty, everybody would shake hands and go home. Parades and parties.

    When Goering was in custody post WWII he thought he'd have dinner and drinks with his British captors and then go home. That was the aristocratic cavalier WWI attitude.

    Both sides were spent. European royals and aristocrats were all linked by blood. The same nonsense and arrogance would continue until the next war or the rise of new authoritarian regimes. Like the Soviets.

    The best book I read on it was Diplomacy by Kissinger. He went through all the swirling currents in the 19th and 20th century up to WWI.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    I think that eastern Europe is the most interesting place in such a scenario.

    The Central Powers will likely control some additional territory there. Most likely Poland, and likely also the Baltic states, eastern Ukraine, and/or Belarus. Will Germany and Austria-Hungary annex any of this territory? Or turn it into puppet states?

    Something like Treaty of Brest-Litovsk or Mitteleuropa

    That, I suspect, would likely be a setup for further strife and war, since those people may not appreciate German rule, and since Russia might pose as their "liberator".

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    I think that eastern Europe is the most interesting place in such a scenario.

    The Central Powers will likely control some additional territory there. Most likely Poland, and likely also the Baltic states, eastern Ukraine, and/or Belarus. Will Germany and Austria-Hungary annex any of this territory? Or turn it into puppet states?

    Something like Treaty of Brest-Litovsk or Mitteleuropa

    That, I suspect, would likely be a setup for further strife and war, since those people may not appreciate German rule, and since Russia might pose as their "liberator".
    But the Central Powers did win in Eastern Europe. So not sure what you think would be different?

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    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just_me View Post
    (1) Would there have been a European union long before It did in the present timeline and doing so provide a countermeasure against America as our economy became better

    (2) Would America become industrialized as quickly as it did in response to WWII and not have had to help Europe rebuild if WWII had never happened?

    (3) Would the Ottoman Empire had fallen in the way it did and allowed the France and Britten to carve up the middle East in their own fashion?

    (4) Would WWII ever have happened and with the atrocities of the Nazis?

    (5) Would the UN had have been created and in being not doing so, Would Palestine have been carved up to create the state of Israel?

    (6) Would America have become the superpower it is now if Europe had not devastated itself in WWII and would nuclear power have seen the light of day in a devastating bomb?

    (7) Would a united Europe, not engaged in their own war and an America set back and watched Japanese aggression in China and if not would China have become communist?

    (8) Would Russia have grown into a super power if they hadn't have had to fight Germany during WWII and not have had Eastern Europe as the spoils of war
    We like to think that Nazism was the result of their defeat in WWI. Modern historians think that things would probably have played out in a similar fashion. Authoritarian and anti-democratic ideals were found all over the west. Social-Darwinism was all the rage. The Catalyst for German Nazism was the attempted communist coup 1918, which was almost successful. Well.. both Nazism and Communism was the zeitgeist, no matter what either side would have done.

    1) The European Union was a direct result of WW2. So probably not.
    2) Wars are expensive. As a general rule, an economy expands faster the fewer wars a country it is in. I don't think USA's economy sped up as a response to WW2. Their GNP went up. But GNP isn't the same thing as an economy. It's just a metric we use for simplicity. Because measuring the real economy is hard.
    3) Nope. It would not. The Ottoman empire might have reformed and come out quite healthy.
    4) Probably. It was the Zeitgeist all over the west. We've just gotten a collective amnesia regarding the Nazi type ideas in the non-German part of Europe. Churchill himself was a raging white supremacist. He was guilty of much the same kinds of things when he was a soldier in the colonies. He had very much the same values regarding race as Hitler.
    5) Nope. The UN was created as a direct result of WW2 and the failure of the League of Nations. The League of Nations would still have failed. So perhaps something similar.
    6) USA was also in WW2. So the answer is, yes, they would. USA became as rich as they did because in the first half of the 20'th century USA was the Saudi Arabia of the world. USA reinvested that money which created an enormous boost to the economy USA is still enjoying.
    7) Remember that China was free money for Europe. It was their little plaything they were bleeding dry. Which gives them a incentive to defend China from Japan. And since Europe was rabidly racist, they were unlikely to sit idly by while Japan created an empire. If it wasn't for German aggression in WW2 Japan would have been stopped in their tracks by Europe. Not many people remember this. But before WW2 (and WWI) Germany was allied to China/Guomindang. As was USA. Because both Germany and USA were allied in their quest to stop Western exploitation of China. While Japan just wanted to be part of the France/England and Russia party.
    8) What caused the Russian Tsar to fall, and communism to happen, was Nikolaj II's obsession with Russian getting Constantinople. He bled Russia dry to win that victory. That would have played out the same if Germany won the war. If Nazism would have come anyway, Germany would probably have attacked Russia, just like before. Because no matter if Hitler was in power or not German industry still needed oil. So the Baku oil fields would always be a tempting target. Germany being forced to sail past enemy France and England for oil was like having Germany's balls in a vice.

    The big unknown here is Austria-Hungary. Europe's biggest empire and most populace European power. If they would have won that would have changed German politics a lot. Since Germany would have been dominated by Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungary would still control Croatia and parts of northern Italy, so would have ports in the Mediterranean. That would have changed much. Instead it was turned into a bunch of ineffectual quarrelling kingdoms. Who knows what they would have done?
    Last edited by DrZoidberg; 03-11-2019 at 12:53 PM.

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