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Thread: Fine-Tuning Argument vs Argument From Miracles

  1. Top | #91
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    I have just finished a bottle of wine (by myself ) and ...currently on another bottle (edit" finshed another bottle I can handle more " lol). My heart is gladdened. I say this because otherwise , I probably would not admit I actually care for you.

    I consider you to be my friends / comrades , individuals , having the same potential (despite beig included among the lost sheep) to find YOUR way according to a particuoar understamding or self knowing of a realization i.e. the ethics,.... the teachings of Jesus!!!

    Honestly I have thought or rather, ....I had hoped my interpretation was wrong, even as a Christian ...for example, regarding my interpretaion , which could be wrong...meaning ... the noton of hell is ... not literally actually true as according to the bible +_ by a partricular "common" understandind. ....a different contexual analogeous aspect of the bible..[/I]. because .... I know many I love, who are opposed to GOD or ignore HIS existence.


    Personally I would ask GOD for signs . Not for me but for non believers.

    Edit: This is not normal for me to be gladdened by God's gift , I was celebrating someones bithday! I know, I know ...drunkards will not inherit the earth .. I'm not drunk !
    Last edited by Learner; 04-09-2019 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Gladdened heart ...love and Whoopeee!!!

  2. Top | #92
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    Post # 93 deleted (off topic)

  3. Top | #93
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    Well, I’m only on my first beer, so I just think you’re nice.

  4. Top | #94
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    Probably should have deleted post #91 as well.

  5. Top | #95
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    Oh my ... I think I can agree , too late to edit.

    (Cheers Tom )
    Last edited by Learner; 04-09-2019 at 06:28 AM.

  6. Top | #96
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    Uh... was that just an inebriated proselytism we had here, on Tee-Eff-Tee-Dot-Org????? That's a first. Somehow, I'm not persuaded.

  7. Top | #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    I have just finished a bottle of wine (by myself ) and ...currently on another bottle (edit" finshed another bottle I can handle more " lol). My heart is gladdened. I say this because otherwise , I probably would not admit I actually care for you.

    I consider you to be my friends / comrades , individuals , having the same potential (despite beig included among the lost sheep) to find YOUR way according to a particuoar understamding or self knowing of a realization i.e. the ethics,.... the teachings of Jesus!!!

    Honestly I have thought or rather, ....I had hoped my interpretation was wrong, even as a Christian ...for example, regarding my interpretaion , which could be wrong...meaning ... the noton of hell is ... not literally actually true as according to the bible +_ by a partricular "common" understandind. ....a different contexual analogeous aspect of the bible..[/I]. because .... I know many I love, who are opposed to GOD or ignore HIS existence.


    Personally I would ask GOD for signs . Not for me but for non believers.

    Edit: This is not normal for me to be gladdened by God's gift , I was celebrating someones bithday! I know, I know ...drunkards will not inherit the earth .. I'm not drunk !
    We get the sentiment--and I, personally, would love it if there were in fact an omni-capable father figure who planned everything and punishes the wicked, etc.etc.,etc.--but to ironically quote the Bible, there comes a time in every child's life to put away childish things.

    Let Go; Let God equally applies to belief in gods.

  8. Top | #98
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    I have just finished a bottle of wine (by myself ) and ...currently on another bottle (edit" finshed another bottle I can handle more " lol). My heart is gladdened. I say this because otherwise , I probably would not admit I actually care for you.

    I consider you to be my friends / comrades , individuals , having the same potential (despite beig included among the lost sheep) to find YOUR way according to a particuoar understamding or self knowing of a realization i.e. the ethics,.... the teachings of Jesus!!!

    Honestly I have thought or rather, ....I had hoped my interpretation was wrong, even as a Christian ...for example, regarding my interpretaion , which could be wrong...meaning ... the noton of hell is ... not literally actually true as according to the bible +_ by a partricular "common" understandind. ....a different contexual analogeous aspect of the bible..[/I]. because .... I know many I love, who are opposed to GOD or ignore HIS existence.


    Personally I would ask GOD for signs . Not for me but for non believers.

    Edit: This is not normal for me to be gladdened by God's gift , I was celebrating someones bithday! I know, I know ...drunkards will not inherit the earth .. I'm not drunk !
    We get the sentiment--and I, personally, would love it if there were in fact an omni-capable father figure who planned everything and punishes the wicked, etc.etc.,etc.--but to ironically quote the Bible, there comes a time in every child's life to put away childish things.

    Let Go; Let God equally applies to belief in gods.
    Someone should tell the Millennials, they're keen on adulting.

  9. Top | #99
    Veteran Member Lumpenproletariat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Like my aunt's "Miracle Car". She owned a Lincoln town car and insisted that when she drove it, she always made green lights -- it was a miracle how that car got her through the city. Doesn't that make you suck in your breath and whisper a li'l prayer??
    Did anyone else confirm her conclusion that the car had this power?

    Any serious "argument from miracles" has to include a consideration of whether the miracles really happened, the reasons or evidence offered, witnesses, etc.
    February 22, 1980 in Lake Placid and May 2, 2015 in Leceister. Both things happened, lots of people witnessed it.
    What happened? someone raised from the dead?

    If the evidence and the sources about it attest that it did happen and was not a hoax, then isn't it likely true? Or should the dogma that miracles cannot happen overrule the evidence?

  10. Top | #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    February 22, 1980 in Lake Placid and May 2, 2015 in Leceister. Both things happened, lots of people witnessed it.
    What happened? someone raised from the dead?

    If the evidence and the sources about it attest that it did happen and was not a hoax, then isn't it likely true?
    Why would claims that something isn't a hoax just make it "likely true"? Bigfoot isn't a hoax. There, I just claimed it, so, that makes it "likely true"?

    Or should the dogma that miracles cannot happen overrule the evidence?
    Apples and oranges. The "evidence" is unsubstantiated anecdote. I saw your mother turn into Adolf Hitler. I just made a truth claim. Does that make it "likely true" that your mother did in fact turn into Adolf Hitler?

    The answer to that question is, "No, it does in no way make it likely true." And that fact has nothing to do with a presumption that "miracles cannot happen" and everything to do with the fact that anyone can claim any idiotic thing they want to claim. Making a claim is not proving a claim.

    When someone reports a crime they witnessed, the police do not just go, "Ok, the fact that you said it means we grabbed the guy and threw him directly into jail for the rest of his life."

    The claim is made and then an investigation takes place, where the police try to find corroborating physical evidence of the claim. Without corroborating physical evidence, the suspect is released, because everyone (normally) understands that making a claim is not the same thing as proving a claim.

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