Page 9 of 87 FirstFirst ... 78910111959 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 867

Thread: Fine-Tuning Argument vs Argument From Miracles

  1. Top | #81
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Port Clinton, Ohio
    Posts
    2,230
    Archived
    591
    Total Posts
    2,821
    Rep Power
    62
    I just skyped Occam. Turns out there's no more need for argumentation. Not ontological, not first cause, not teleological. Everything you experience makes more sense when attributed to dumb, god-less natural forces. Everything points to thousands of religions being just plain made up by couch potato ancients (and modern pretenders like Joseph Smith, Ann Lee, L Ron Hubbard, Rev. Moon, the Bogwhan, and Charles Manson.)

  2. Top | #82
    Veteran Member Lumpenproletariat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    ^ Why don't I get any pretty jewels? Waaaaa!
    Posts
    1,578
    Rep Power
    22
    Of the two, the "argument from miracles" is the correct one. I.e., the miracles of Jesus -- not "proof" of anything, but a strong indicator that there's an Entity with Power who/which offers us eternal life.

    All the rest is ---

    is --

    interesting.

  3. Top | #83
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Port Clinton, Ohio
    Posts
    2,230
    Archived
    591
    Total Posts
    2,821
    Rep Power
    62
    Like my aunt's "Miracle Car". She owned a Lincoln town car and insisted that when she drove it, she always made green lights -- it was a miracle how that car got her through the city. Doesn't that make you suck in your breath and whisper a li'l prayer??

  4. Top | #84
    Veteran Member Lumpenproletariat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    ^ Why don't I get any pretty jewels? Waaaaa!
    Posts
    1,578
    Rep Power
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Like my aunt's "Miracle Car". She owned a Lincoln town car and insisted that when she drove it, she always made green lights -- it was a miracle how that car got her through the city. Doesn't that make you suck in your breath and whisper a li'l prayer??
    Did anyone else confirm her conclusion that the car had this power?

    Any serious "argument from miracles" has to include a consideration of whether the miracles really happened, the reasons or evidence offered, witnesses, etc.

  5. Top | #85
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    5,023
    Archived
    3,884
    Total Posts
    8,907
    Rep Power
    58
    The problem with miracles is that they don't happen as promised. Mark 11, John 14:12-14 et al.

    12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
    13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    So to get around this, a lot of Xians tell us the age of miracles ended in the days of Christ.
    Then people tell us about the miracles Christians get today.

    "Aunt Edna got sick and we prayed and she got well. Praise the Lord!"
    "Uncle Luke got sick and we prayed and he died. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Praise the Lord!"
    "Some times when we pray, God says no. Praise the Lord."

    Real Christians handle snakes. And speak in tongues.
    Cheerful Charlie

  6. Top | #86
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Port Clinton, Ohio
    Posts
    2,230
    Archived
    591
    Total Posts
    2,821
    Rep Power
    62
    As far as I know, no statistical analysis was done on my aunt's car. She drove conservatively, so I think she probably drove slowly toward red traffic lights, slow enough to avoid stopping at the light. That was probably the Big Miracle. (She wasn't born again -- she had joined some offshoot of Scientology; this was in Miami in the mid-70s. It wasn't exactly L Ron's group, but it was kooky -- they met in some non-churchy hall with no particular cultural aura. There was a strong group feeling and a lot of glad-handing and the singing of positive-thinking songs that were a cross between whatever genres you have in 'Kum Ba Ya' and 'Tomorrow' from Annie. Folk primitivism and nursing home pop, I guess.)

  7. Top | #87
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    5,023
    Archived
    3,884
    Total Posts
    8,907
    Rep Power
    58
    Was it Eckankar?
    Cheerful Charlie

  8. Top | #88
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Located 100 miles east of A in America
    Posts
    24,499
    Archived
    42,473
    Total Posts
    66,972
    Rep Power
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Like my aunt's "Miracle Car". She owned a Lincoln town car and insisted that when she drove it, she always made green lights -- it was a miracle how that car got her through the city. Doesn't that make you suck in your breath and whisper a li'l prayer??
    Did anyone else confirm her conclusion that the car had this power?

    Any serious "argument from miracles" has to include a consideration of whether the miracles really happened, the reasons or evidence offered, witnesses, etc.
    February 22, 1980 in Lake Placid and May 2, 2015 in Leceister. Both things happened, lots of people witnessed it.

  9. Top | #89
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Searching for reality along the long and winding road
    Posts
    5,156
    Archived
    12,976
    Total Posts
    18,132
    Rep Power
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpenproletariat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Like my aunt's "Miracle Car". She owned a Lincoln town car and insisted that when she drove it, she always made green lights -- it was a miracle how that car got her through the city. Doesn't that make you suck in your breath and whisper a li'l prayer??
    Did anyone else confirm her conclusion that the car had this power?

    Any serious "argument from miracles" has to include a consideration of whether the miracles really happened, the reasons or evidence offered, witnesses, etc.
    My auto has that power too but it isn't always miraculous. But sometimes (like Jesus only occasionally healing a leaper, not all leapers) my auto will perform the miracle of allowing me to drive completely through town without having to stop, catching every traffic light green.

  10. Top | #90
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Between two cities
    Posts
    2,156
    Archived
    56
    Total Posts
    2,212
    Rep Power
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie View Post
    The problem with miracles is that they don't happen as promised. Mark 11, John 14:12-14 et al.

    12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
    13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    So to get around this, a lot of Xians tell us the age of miracles ended in the days of Christ.
    Then people tell us about the miracles Christians get today.

    "Aunt Edna got sick and we prayed and she got well. Praise the Lord!"
    "Uncle Luke got sick and we prayed and he died. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Praise the Lord!"
    "Some times when we pray, God says no. Praise the Lord."

    Real Christians handle snakes. And speak in tongues.


    Ultimately ...it IS appointed that man must die ONCE, all must give up the ways of the flesh , physical or emotional... the easily enticed corruptions as according to the biblical narrative. My understanding is; there are several levels in this undersanding , simply because we are all variably , in various ways, seeing from different angles or perspectives, as the bible portrays for example portraying :shedding the nature of the flesh ... to be "reborn" , to not be dictated by the flesh / desires which ignores many aspects of morality (As according to GOD ).

Similar Threads

  1. Theological Fine Tuning
    By Cheerful Charlie in forum General Religion
    Replies: 168
    Last Post: 05-09-2018, 09:33 AM
  2. fine tuning argument
    By BH in forum Existence of God(s)
    Replies: 120
    Last Post: 05-06-2018, 05:45 PM
  3. How would you debate this argument
    By NobleSavage in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 10-04-2014, 07:12 AM
  4. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-29-2014, 10:05 PM
  5. The argument for eating dog
    By Potoooooooo in forum Political Discussions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-26-2014, 07:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •